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Old Nov 30, 2005, 6:07 PM   #11
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Ok, I'd like a 4x (or bigger)optical zoom now (wants it all eh! ... ) but I was thinking how often I zoom in with pictures. I tend not to go past 3X for obvious reasons, but I think maybe if the camera came with a better zoom, it would help.

I appreciate I'll almost have to go bigger in camera size, but as long as it fits into a pocket, that's fine!

Change anything people??

Cheers
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Old Nov 30, 2005, 7:25 PM   #12
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About the only pocket camera with a longer zoom that might work for you is the Panasonic LZ2. It is stabilized and has a 6X optical zoom. But you aren't going to capture people jumping around onstage with it.

Steve has the LZ2 on his "Best Cameras" list. He hasn't tested the FX9 and for some reason didn't include the F10 on the list. I still think the F10 or F11 are your best bets for concerts.

I think the only pocket cameras that handle high ISO well are the Fuji F10 & F11. They have a sensor that is particularly good at higher ISO and good in-camera noise reduction. You still get a lot of noise at ISO1600, but the photo is useable. Those are the only pocket cameras that will capture action onstage to any degree.

Stabilization works differently. It allows you to handhold a shot at lower shutter speeds. Most manufacturers are advertising 3 f-stops advantage, which means that you can handhold a picture at ISO 100 with stabilization that would require ISO 800 on the Fuji. And I've read the ISO on the Fuji is rated a little higher than it should be. The stabilized shot at ISO100 would be better for noise.

The rub is that with the low shutter speed you can't freeze motion. The reason I mentioned the good burst mode on the Panasonics is that it gives a better shot at getting a null moment. It wouldn't do any good for the FX9 to go above ISO 400 because the shot would be so noisy it wouldn't be useable anyway.


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Old Nov 30, 2005, 11:32 PM   #13
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Pauldw501 wrote:
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Sorry, but that's allgone over my head ...
Do some reading and thinking, and you will figure it out.

The short version of what I was saying is that your problem can be figured out in terms of the camera specification. Often that turns out to only fit with a very expensive camera, if any. Then you have to figure out how you want to compromise - trade noise against shutter speed, or anti-shake against price, or flash against being kicked out, ...

The EXIF data is almost certainly in your images. It keeps track of things like shutter speed, focal length, f/stop, ISO, ... Take a look at the software that came with your camera - there is a good chance you have that. Otherwise download IrfanView.

You are not likely to really figure out what you want in your next camera unless you figure out how to use the one you already have and learn its limitations. Limitations that are well quanitfied and thus can be used to help specify your next camera.
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Old Nov 30, 2005, 11:33 PM   #14
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slipe wrote:
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About the only pocket camera with a longer zoom that might work for you is the Panasonic LZ2. It is stabilized and has a 6X optical zoom. But you aren't going to capture people jumping around onstage with it.

Steve has the LZ2 on his "Best Cameras" list. He hasn't tested the FX9 and for some reason didn't include the F10 on the list. I still think the F10 or F11 are your best bets for concerts.

I think the only pocket cameras that handle high ISO well are the Fuji F10 & F11. They have a sensor that is particularly good at higher ISO and good in-camera noise reduction. You still get a lot of noise at ISO1600, but the photo is useable. Those are the only pocket cameras that will capture action onstage to any degree.

Stabilization works differently. It allows you to handhold a shot at lower shutter speeds. Most manufacturers are advertising 3 f-stops advantage, which means that you can handhold a picture at ISO 100 with stabilization that would require ISO 800 on the Fuji. And I've read the ISO on the Fuji is rated a little higher than it should be. The stabilized shot at ISO100 would be better for noise.

The rub is that with the low shutter speed you can't freeze motion. The reason I mentioned the good burst mode on the Panasonics is that it gives a better shot at getting a null moment. It wouldn't do any good for the FX9 to go above ISO 400 because the shot would be so noisy it wouldn't be useable anyway.

Well just had a look at the LZ2 and like what I see ...

You say I won't be able to capture people jumping around on stage, and I don't want to, well at times it would be handy! A lot of the time they're just standing there, but with my Canon it just doesn't want to give me a decent pic, ESPECIALLY if I dare 'digi zoom'.

I'm VERY new to camera lingo and I guess 'noise' is what I get tons off with Digital Zoom ?!

So yeah, a camera with a 6X zoom, and will perform half decent in low light situations like a gig is all I'm after. Altho the LZ2 is that bit bigger than the FX9 & F10 (I think), I can't help but feel pulled towards this one for now.

I'll check Steve's review now. ta








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Old Dec 1, 2005, 10:20 AM   #15
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Ok, I can get a Panasonic LZ2 for £150 which is about £50 under what others are selling for.

Last one tho, so gotta be quick!

Camera seems decent to me and that 6X optical seems unparalleled!

Hmmm




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Old Dec 1, 2005, 7:06 PM   #16
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Paul,

What makes you think that the LZ2 will be any better in the dark than your current camera? It has the same maximum ISO (400) as the your IXUS 55...it's bigger...it weighs more...it has a lower resolution video capability (320 x 240)...it only has a 2" LCD (same as your original, IXUS 40)...it has no AF assist lamp...Steve's review (as well as others) showed noise at anything over ISO 100 (however, I could see noise even in the ISO 100 sample pics)...and a shot cycle time of almost 4 seconds with flash on. Why are you even considering this camera - 6x zoom?

You came here looking for advice after a "wrong move", now it looks like your going to make a worse one! Of all the cameras suggested in this thread, I second the F10. I originally suggested the Z2, because you said you wanted a small camera that would outperform the IXUS 55 in the dark. I guess that isn't as important now, so the F10 would be a better camera for low light performance.

Good luck.

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Old Dec 2, 2005, 12:40 AM   #17
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rinniethehun wrote:
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Paul,

What makes you think that the LZ2 will be any better in the dark than your current camera? It has the same maximum ISO (400) as the your IXUS 55...it's bigger...it weighs more...it has a lower resolution video capability (320 x 240)...it only has a 2" LCD (same as your original, IXUS 40)...it has no AF assist lamp...Steve's review (as well as others) showed noise at anything over ISO 100 (however, I could see noise even in the ISO 100 sample pics)...and a shot cycle time of almost 4 seconds with flash on. Why are you even considering this camera - 6x zoom?

You came here looking for advice after a "wrong move", now it looks like your going to make a worse one! Of all the cameras suggested in this thread, I second the F10. I originally suggested the Z2, because you said you wanted a small camera that would outperform the IXUS 55 in the dark. I guess that isn't as important now, so the F10 would be a better camera for low light performance.

Good luck.

the Hun
Ok, I'll try and make some sense, try!

Yes, the 6x zoom hasalmost soldme! After thinking about how my pictures tend to turn out, a majority are crap because I've basically had to use the Digital Zoom. I know nowt about camera's really, but DO know the digital zoom is rubbish, well in my experience anyway.

At first I thought it was about the camera and it's capabilities, and to be honest I can show you pictures that were taken with my old 4MP CanonIXUS 40that are a lot clearer than those taken with the current Canon.

Yes the LZ2 will only go upto 400 ISO like the Canon, but with the extra optical zoom I was hoping I'd be able to zoom in that bit more, and end up with a better pic in the end.

I must admit, I have been having reservations simply on the cost of the camera, and what with 'you get what you pay for' and all that.

With hindsight I don't think I started the OP very well, or at least explained what I am really after, which is a camera that will fit into my pocket, and perform better than my Canon IXY, ESPECIALLY when zooming in, for upto the £300 mark.

Maybe I should just pay higher prices for tickets and get closer to the stage! ... :-)

Apart from securing a buyer for my Canon, I have done nothing as far as the replacement so am still VERY much open to sudgestion.

I'm going to have a good read up on the F10 now.

Thanks for your advice ...


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Old Dec 2, 2005, 1:23 AM   #18
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My opinion Fuji 10 seem can do the good job for in door shooting.
Unless you willing to carry slightly bigger cam, maybe you can consider Kodak P850
http://www.steves-digicams.com/2005_reviews/p850.html

Max ISO: 400, or 800 for 1.2MP only, but have some feature such as:
1. 12x Optical zoom
2. Image Stabilizer
3. More manual control
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Old Dec 2, 2005, 1:45 AM   #19
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armadilloshield wrote:
Quote:
My opinion Fuji 10 seem can do the good job for in door shooting.
Unless you willing to carry slightly bigger cam, maybe you can consider Kodak P850
http://www.steves-digicams.com/2005_reviews/p850.html

Max ISO: 400, or 800 for 1.2MP only, but have some feature such as:
1. 12x Optical zoom
2. Image Stabilizer
3. More manual control
Hi, just had a look at the p850 and altho the 12x optical zoom almost gets my cheque book out, plus ability to use a more powerful flash, I can't help but feel this kind of camera (size wise) will get taken off me if found when entering a gig / concert ...

After all I'm trying to replace my Canon for 'concert' pictures really.

As said before, I'm a novice photographer and outdoor pictures have been fine with every camera I've used, but it's the more demanding indoor ones at range that are the problem.

Thanks for your input tho ...

Fuji F10 still looking fav for now.
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Old Dec 2, 2005, 12:09 PM   #20
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Don't get me wrong, I'm not against zoom lenses (I have a 10x myself), I'm just trying to help you understand what you may be getting into with the LZ2. You start off with a camera that has a noise problem over ISO 100, which has an F2.8 aperture at wide angle...then you zoom to 6x, which then becomes F4.5...then you bring the camera to a concert with a low light situation, and I think you should be prepared for a blurry, noisy mess...and that's all I have to say about that.

I don't believe there currently exists a true pocket cam with megazoom and great low light capability...if you find one, please let me know right away!

the Hun



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