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Old Dec 2, 2005, 1:44 PM   #21
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rinniethehun wrote:
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Don't get me wrong, I'm not against zoom lenses (I have a 10x myself), I'm just trying to help you understand what you may be getting into with the LZ2. You start off with a camera that has a noise problem over ISO 100, which has an F2.8 aperture at wide angle...then you zoom to 6x, which then becomes F4.5...then you bring the camera to a concert with a low light situation, and I think you should be prepared for a blurry, noisy mess...and that's all I have to say about that.

I don't believe there currently exists a true pocket cam with megazoom and great low light capability...if you find one, please let me know right away!

the Hun



Yeah I'm listening to what your saying. The 6X zoom (or anything over 3X) does sound VERY appealing, but that's obv no good if the rest don't fit.

I think I have to consider a bigger camera really, as like you say a 'pocket' camera just isn't gonna cut it!

Now how small do the 'big' ones go ... lol ?!

The P850 didn't look THAT big, but is there smallerout there?

I'll look, but any advice is obv VERY welcomed ...
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Old Dec 2, 2005, 2:07 PM   #22
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Canon Powershot S80 looks nice, and not too big.

Or am I clutching at straws now ... :?
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Old Dec 2, 2005, 10:46 PM   #23
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Paul, I agree with you to find an ideal camera seem not easy :-)
Myself until today still hvn't got one :roll:

So far I know hv the biggest zoom (10x) and pocket size is Nikon S4.
http://www.steves-digicams.com/2005_reviews/s4.html
Maybe second smaller Panasonic FZ5.
But the decision is yours, must consider carefully before you purchase it
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Old Dec 3, 2005, 1:39 AM   #24
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Pauldw501 wrote:
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Canon Powershot S80 looks nice, and not too big.

Or am I clutching at straws now ... :?
The S80 would probably not get concert photos any better than your current camera. It has neither stabilization nor effective high ISO capability.

For stationary subjects the LX2 will allow you to handhold at ISO 100 where you would need ISO 800 without stabilization. It will have lower noise at ISO 100 than the F10 at ISO 800 and the aperture is the same at 6X as the aperture on the F10 at 3X. If you go up to ISO 200 on the LX2 you have the same handheld capability as ISO 1600 on the F10 – again with less noise. The good 3 frames per second burst mode gives you a better shot at hitting a null moment in movement. I use burst quite often in limited light and often find that one or two shots are sharp where the others aren't. Stage lighting is usually pretty bright and I think you would likely get good shots since you say you don't try to photograph action. I'm not a fan of either point and shoot cameras or cameras without a viewfinder. But the viewfinders on both the LX2 and F10 would be fine indoors for a concert and you don't seem to mind P&S.

The P850 you mentioned is also stabilized and is around an f-stop faster at zoom than the LX2 or F10. It is also bigger of course. The Panasonic FZ5 is a little smaller but nowhere near pocketable. It is also stabilized and has a little better aperture capability than the P850.

There are some advantages to high ISO capability compared to stabilization. You get more noise but can capture action better. You might have a look at the Fuji S5200/5600 if you want more zoom and high ISO. It has a 10X zoom and has similar high ISO noise characteristics as the F10. It is similar in size to the P850. If you are developing only 4 X 6 prints, ISO 800 on the F10 or S5200 looks pretty good. The Fuji S9000 has the high ISO settings but not the good noise characteristics of the F10/11 and S5200.



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Old Dec 3, 2005, 5:20 AM   #25
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The decision really shouldn't be that difficult. I don't see ANYTHING other than the Fuji F10/F11 that fits your needs.
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Old Dec 3, 2005, 10:43 AM   #26
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Couldn't find anything on an LX2...did you mean LZ2 (6x w/IS)? If so, take a look at an interesting comparison of a concert hall shot between the F10 and the LZ2. The F10 shot was taken at ISO 1600, and the LZ2 was taken at ISO 64. Look at the original size pics:

http://www.dpreview.com/gallery/?gal...lmf10_samples/

http://www.dpreview.com/gallery/?gal...iclz2_samples/

I think the colors in the F10 shot are much more realistic. Even though the F10 shot exhibits more grain, the LZ2 shot is horribly blurry. Even the unmoving piano on stage looks clearer in the F10 pic. I could live with the F10 shot, but not the LZ2 shot.

Just my opinion.

the Hun


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Old Dec 3, 2005, 1:56 PM   #27
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Yes I meant LZ2 – it was late.

The LZ2 image you linked was shot at ISO400 – not the best setting with that camera. The F10 shot at ISO1600 is quite impressive full sized IMO. Many people who have compared it to other cameras think the F10 ISO is overrated by almost an f-stop. But that is still an impressive shot regardless of rating.

The LZ2 will get decent stage shots if there isn't motion onstage. That seems like a limitation to me, but Pauldw501 says capturing motion isn't that important to him. The LZ2 is the only camera that is small with a reasonably good zoom I can see that might work.

If size isn't a problem the Fuji 5200/5600 looks to be the best option to me for a longer zoom. I personally prefer stabilization to high ISO as I don't shoot a lot of action in low light. But for concerts I would want the Fuji.

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Old Dec 3, 2005, 2:04 PM   #28
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Ok, well it seems that the Fuji F10 is a bit of a winner in your views, and you lot certainly know a damm sight more than I do in all this camerastuff ...

The only thing that I can't get away from, is that I still feel I need a bigger Optical zoom than 3X.

I've just been going thru all my concert pictures and it's just that soooooo many of them because of my seating / standing position on the night, have required a lot of zoom, and many go into that digital zoom area ... This is actually where I REALLY see my older SD400 produce better than the current IXUS 50 for some reason, and why I feel the upgrade was a bit of a downgrade, or 'wrong move' as I put it originally.

I can't help but feel that a bigger Optical zoom will give me more benifit's than say a higher ISO, but that's just my naive opinion probably.

To try and explain.

So we have a camera that will produce better shots with higher ISO setting, or whatever else, but if it's Optical is upto 3X and I need to go into that dodgy digital zoom, then it all goes downhill from 3X onwards.

Next camera won't go as high with ISO and stuff, BUT will let me zoom 6, 7, 10, 12, Optically, and obv keeping away from that Digital zoom, and in turn give a better end result.

I think ...







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Old Dec 3, 2005, 3:09 PM   #29
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If it's zoom you want...along with High ISO, then listen to slipe and go with the S5600. You'll forfeit the pocketability (is that a word?), but you willl have a 10x zoom with ISO 1600.

Whew! Now that wasn't bad, was it?

[by the way, slipe and I were both incorrect with the ISO setting for the LZ2 pic...acording to the link, it was shot at ISO 80]

the Hun

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Old Dec 3, 2005, 3:47 PM   #30
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rinniethehun wrote:
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If it's zoom you want...along with High ISO, then listen to slipe and go with the S5600. You'll forfeit the pocketability (is that a word?), but you willl have a 10x zoom with ISO 1600.

Whew! Now that wasn't bad, was it?

[by the way, slipe and I were both incorrect with the ISO setting for the LZ2 pic...acording to the link, it was shot at ISO 80]

the Hun
You people are gonna hate me! ...lol

Well all looks fine with the Fuji S5600, but one thing, I don't see me getting that past a security search when entering a concert, it looks too 'Pro' to me.

I DO appreciate getting tall orders from small camera's is near on impossible, but I'm just trying to find the 'happy medium' if it exists, taking into account I still think the higher optical Zoom is up there in my list of priorities.

The Nikon S4 was mentioned earlier. Now that looks like it might still pass for a P&S maybe. The zoom seems lovely, but I think it only went upto ISO 400, and don't know if the higher ISO is a bigger need than the higher zoom.

I think at the end of the day, I WILL go for something that has a higher Optical zoom than 3X. How much more I need I do not know, but i'm pretty sure that is the top of my priorities.

Now finding the best camera that will pass as a P&S, AND perform half decent at the concert, then well this is my mission!

Thanks so much for everyones advice so far ... I am confident I'll find the best camera for the jobsoon ...

Cheers


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