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Old Nov 30, 2005, 6:38 AM   #1
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Firstly, new to the forum so hi ...

I had a Canon Ixus 40 and altho was quite happy with it, I did always think the screen was a tad small. So my last upgrade was to a Canon Ixy 55. The smaller size of the camera was VERY welcoming, and obviously the bigger screen, but I am having doubts about the actual picture quality, ESPECIALLY in the dark (live concerts).

The 55 is obv 1MP higher, but to be honest I haven't seen any improvement, other than bigger files! I'm sure if pictures were printed at max resolution, I would see it, but I rarely go bigger than 7 x5 so 4MP WAS fine.

Now I am looking to replace this camera as like the title says, I feel this upgrade was a wrong move ...

Now what am I looking for?

Well I'd like a camera of similar size to the 55, as good as it with daylight shots, but it's the night time or 'darker' shots I want to see an improvement.

Video clip with sound is probably a 'must' altho between these 2 camera's, altho the 55 again produces better than the 40, filesizes again are growing and with a 10 second clip ending up at 20mb at least, I cannot send via email so not a lot of use really.

Sooooo, is there a camera of similar size and spec that will outperform the 55 in the dark I wonder ?!?

IS there a small digital camera that will give higher than 3x optical zoom?!... as I don't think much of 'digital' zoom, especially when fully wound in.

Thanks in advance for any advice you can give us on this matter ...









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Old Nov 30, 2005, 6:58 AM   #2
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You need a cam that delivers good pictures at high ISO's, like ISO1600 or ISO3200.

Maybe consider a DSLR like a Canon Rebel XT or a Nikon D50 or even a Canon 20D.

They aren't small cameras, but they do the job.

-- Terry


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Old Nov 30, 2005, 7:12 AM   #3
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[email protected] wrote:
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You need a cam that delivers good pictures at high ISO's, like ISO1600 or ISO3200.

Maybe consider a DSLR like a Canon Rebel XT or a Nikon D50 or even a Canon 20D.

They aren't small cameras, but they do the job.

-- Terry

Hi Terry, Ok I've just had a 'Google Images' search of all three, and see they ARE quite big compared to what I've been using.

Is this the whole problem, the smaller camera's can't do what the bigger ones can ... so to put it?

IF the case then I see a 2nd camera is going to be needed, followed by a 3rd, 4th etc ... :-)

I do love the Canon IXY 55, but maybe best kept for a 'mostly outdoor' P+S jobbie, and get something more suitable for night shots.

Or IS there some kind of compromise ?!?

Cheers

Paul.


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Old Nov 30, 2005, 9:02 AM   #4
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Terry has it right: if you really want to shoot in low light, you need high ISO and a fast lens (low f/number). High ISO pretty much comes onlywith large sensors (and a larger camer to hold it) and a fast lens means a bigger piece of glass. So you will not find the ultimate low light camera in a compact. And you will not find it cheap.

That doesn't mean you should give up. You might not need the ultimate low light camera, so read the reviews paying attention to the speed of the lens and the highest useable ISO. Unless you know otherwise from detailed reviews, consider the highest two highest ISOs to be unuseable.
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Old Nov 30, 2005, 12:08 PM   #5
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For concert shots you might want to look at the Fuji F10 or F11. Their higher ISO is useable more than other small cameras. The Neat Image demo is considered freeware and will reduce the noise nicely if you have to shoot at high ISO.

You would also get some good shots with the Panasonic FX9 if you could get a moment of null subject movement. It has a decent burst mode, which I find makes it more likely to capture a moment when the drummer's hand is between strokes etc. The Fuji still gives more noise at high ISO but is probably better for your purposes.

A DSLR is certainly better, but many concerts won't let you bring one in. And I'm guessing they are out of both your size and price range once you get a good low light zoom lens.

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Old Nov 30, 2005, 12:26 PM   #6
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Fuji Z2? Ultra-compact; 2.5", 232K pixel LCD; ISO 1600; 3x zoom...oh well...

the Hun


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Old Nov 30, 2005, 3:10 PM   #7
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slipe wrote:
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For concert shots you might want to look at the Fuji F10 or F11. Their higher ISO is useable more than other small cameras. The Neat Image demo is considered freeware and will reduce the noise nicely if you have to shoot at high ISO.

You would also get some good shots with the Panasonic FX9 if you could get a moment of null subject movement. It has a decent burst mode, which I find makes it more likely to capture a moment when the drummer's hand is between strokes etc. The Fuji still gives more noise at high ISO but is probably better for your purposes.

A DSLR is certainly better, but many concerts won't let you bring one in. And I'm guessing they are out of both your size and price range once you get a good low light zoom lens.

Thanks everyone for your replies ...

I think the DSLR is just going to be too big. My Canon is a lovely size, but size is becoming less important if it doesn't produce the shots I want.

I love the look and spec of the FX9, altho am yet to check on a price ?!

Fuji F10 is looking good too as altho it seems to a appear bigger from a glance, I think we can fit that into a pocket ...

I'll have a little read up on both and check prices, go from there unless anyone wants to throw anything else into the bag ?!

Cheers


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Old Nov 30, 2005, 4:42 PM   #8
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Ok, both the Panasonic and the Fuji are in my price range and I can obtain both easy enough.

I'm right in thinking the Panasonic will only go to 400 ISO ?! ... yet the Fuji will go to 1600!

Or did I get that bit wrong ?!

I'm considering the Fuji at this stage, but am just wondering if there's anything else I should look at.

Both these camera's are not a lot bigger than my Canon at all, which is good, but I COULD go a bit bigger if it'll be worth it!

Cheers
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Old Nov 30, 2005, 5:28 PM   #9
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Take some shots with your current camera set at the highest ISO it has in the setting you want to use another camera. Then look at the EXIF data for that shot - likely it will be something like f/4, ISO 400, 100mm (equiv focal length),1/5th second with really bad noise. If you want about 1/100th shutter speed, you need four stops. Going to an f/2 lens will get two of those, and going to ISO 1600 will get the other two.Not likely to be foundin any consumer digicam without serious noise problems.

So instead of my made-up EXIF data, what is your real data? What is the slowest shutter speed you can tollerate? How much noise can you stand to have? It can be figured from there.
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Old Nov 30, 2005, 5:34 PM   #10
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BillDrew wrote:
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Take some shots with your current camera set at the highest ISO it has in the setting you want to use another camera. Then look at the EXIF data for that shot - likely it will be something like f/4, ISO 400, 100mm (equiv focal length),1/5th second with really bad noise. If you want about 1/100th shutter speed, you need four stops. Going to an f/2 lens will get two of those, and going to ISO 1600 will get the other two.Not likely to be foundin any consumer digicam without serious noise problems.

So instead of my made-up EXIF data, what is your real data? What is the slowest shutter speed you can tollerate? How much noise can you stand to have? It can be figured from there.
Sorry, but that's allgone over my head ...


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