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Old Dec 5, 2005, 9:27 PM   #21
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You know what? As an owner, the usability factor of cameras is one of the most important thing. To make bad the situation, reviews seldom to into detail about this, and to make things worse, few buyers pay attention to it prior to purchase. After purchase many just try to live and deal with it.

I wholeheartedly suggest you go to a store and play around with the cameras you have in consideration for at least an hour. You'll learn some bits about the design and ergonomics that you might otherwise not know about. All the entry-level SLRs in the market are generally good, but each with its own niggles and stuff.

[email protected] wrote:
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I just evaluated the quality of the images I saw off different cams, and decided that the Canon CMOS was the way to go.
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- Fine you have a taste for Disneycolour, but it seems like the world must agree with you for you to feel good about your taste. Do you need peer acceptance to validate your tastes? Did you know the Fuji S2 Pro has superior high ISO performance? Are you going to snyde against Fujifor pro work as well? You know what - people use Olympus, Fuji, Minolta and even a D70 for pro work as well. The Professional is the photographer, not the camera. I've seen people use prosumers to make pictures surpassing your average D50/350D buyer can do, because they have strong imagination.
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Canon owns 60 percent of the DSLR market.
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- Again, this re-inforces the notion that youseek peer acceptance to feel good about yourself.
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Old Dec 5, 2005, 9:33 PM   #22
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Perhaps Mr. Terry has difficulty reading ...

Monza76 wrote:
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9) The Canon fans need not chime in here, I have no intentions to pay hundreds of dollars more for a camera with one lens only to have to purchase another lens just to get what these two systems already give me. Nikon is a little closer since the D50 body is less than the two I am looking at (but the lens issue still holds). I could go Konica Minolta since I have lenses from 18mm to 210mm, but I am still a little leary about the company's future plans in Canada. The Olympus E-500 kit is about $200 more from the places I would trust to buy from, so it isn't in the running at the moment.
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Old Dec 5, 2005, 9:41 PM   #23
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Richx,

I agree, usability is definitely a factor.

I've always liked the Minolta's from that respect.

Yah, the Fuji dsr's are serious cams, no doubt.

No, I can't saymy need was to"go with the flow" by purchasing a Canon.

At the time I bought my 20D, it was a serious outlay of cash that I agonized for a period of time.

At first, I wasn't sure if I made the right decision, as I find the cam large and heavy, somewhat difficult to set the ISO and the jpeg images slightly soft out of the cam.

But as I got used to the cam, I really began to appreciate the image quality, build quality, nice shots at high ISO's and responsiveness.

Now, a year later, I have no buyers remorse what so ever.

I agree that a good photographer is where's it at, but I really think in the digital world its the photographer AND the equipment that makes it happen.

Once you've grown into a high end cam, it's a tough road back to an inferior one.

I bought a cheapo point and shoot as a second digicam and regretted it. As creative as I could be, I just wasn't happy with the images.

I just bought an Canon S80 as a second cam (no RAW, but I'll take the 8mp images and the 28-100 lens in a point and shoot.

I'd say buy the best you can afford and be the best photog you can be.

-- Terry






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Old Dec 5, 2005, 9:41 PM   #24
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In my experience the *istDS is a an equal or superior camera to the others in this price range. As Terry suggests please consider the photos on Pbase particularly those from the limited series pentax lenses, In my opinion they are far better than any other offerings in the 500-1000 dollar price range. As everyone seems to be very fond of saying, when you buy an slr you are buying into a system, and pentax offers the best prime lenses available for an slr. If your focus is sports or you'd like to purchase your camera at best buy, than pentax might not be an option, but otherwise I find the ds to be competitive, and the limited lenses close to Leica and Ziess quality.

I know my post is mostly flaming, but do consider the type of glass you are interested in when purchasing a camera. I favor quality prime lenses, and pentax has the best offerings in this area.

Dave
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Old Dec 5, 2005, 9:42 PM   #25
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Yah, I read the Canon thing after.

But really, it depends on the lenses he has.

If the lenses are pretty low end, why predjudice your future direction?

Now if he has some awesome Pentax primes, well thats another story.
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Old Dec 5, 2005, 9:46 PM   #26
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Dave,

I'm with you all the way with your comments.

Better to pick your lenses and focal lengths, then whack a body on the back end of it.

Yah, if you have some serious Pentax primes, look out.

I've noticed that used primes and autofocuses are becoming harder and harder to come by at a decent price.

Of course I use Tamrons (as well as Canon) that have fittings for most of the major manufactureres anyways.

-- Terry


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Old Dec 5, 2005, 9:58 PM   #27
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I don't normally waste my time like this, but prior to departing for China tomorrow, I felt I was in the groove

[email protected] wrote:
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The Pentax probably has the worst of the image quality of all the DSLR's, so I'd skip that camera all together.
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- You're just being negative about the unfamiliar. I'll put 5 cents down on the fact that you've never shot extensively with an *ist D, DS, DL,DS2,E-1, E-300, E-500, KM-7D,KM-5D, S2 and S3 and hence you have absolutely no idea how these cameras operate.
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The Olympus is a cool camera, but the lenses are freakishly expensive.
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- So are Canon's lenses ... But hey the Olympus 2-lens kit is wonderful value. The author of the original post has stated this, and you obviously missed it. Oh yes, the ZD 14-45 lens has the equivalent of "USM" in your world. Try that with your 350D kit lens.
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Probably a most useful lens are the wide angles, and the 4/3's system hasa cropping factor that kills you on the wide angle.
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- Again, you demonstrate the lack of knowledge about other systems except your beloved Canon. This "wide-angle" issue is more than addressed with the introduction of the ZD 8/3.5 FE, ZD 7-14/4 ED, and ZD 11-22/2.8-3.5.
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If you own lenses that are slower than F2.8, then you should be thinking about upgrading your lenses.Don't choose a camera cause you got some old slow lenses you want to reuse.
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- Some people happen to like to take their time with making their shots. You happen to be a sports photographer, so you may not understand the joy of manual focus. And oh, many lenses slower than 1:2.8 are capable too, but your world-view might be too narrow to accept that.
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Okay, you think you don't need 8 megapixels but think about cropping.Most decent photographers shoot wide, then crop later.So, expect to lose 20 to 50 percent of your frame with after the fact cropping. I'd rather be starting out with an 8 mp image than a 6mp from that perspective.
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- Perhaps you have difficulty framing properly at the point of making the exposure, which is understandable for sports photography. Oh, what happened to the wide angle/cropfactor talk? Cropping in Photoshop is the same anyway. Believe it or not, some people are actually capable of framing the exposure the way the way it, so there would be no need for extensive cropping.
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If your shooting Canon RAW images, they are 8mb images, capable of producing 5mb JPEGS.Assume you'll need a large hard drive.
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- This applies to every RAW image from every digital camera, SLR or not.
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- Stick with Nikon or Canon, that's what the pro's and serious photogs use.
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-- If you do sports, there is nothing that superceeds the D2H, D2X and 1Ds MkII, but otherwise, many "pros" also use the E-1, KM-7D, S2/S3 Pro, and yes, even the D70.
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- Get a cam that can do serious high ISO stuff, only the Canon Rebel XTor the Nikon D50 will deliver.
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-- So will the S2 Pro, D70, *ist DS/DL/DS2. And consider this - the 350D goes up to ISO1600 while the *ist DL has ISO3200, and when the light drops really low, which camera will expose one stop brighter?
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- Spend some time on PBASE and look up some image examples from the Canon or the Nikon D50.See which one has the better image quality (guess what, the Canon wins!)
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-- Why not look at photos from prosumers too? You'll soon discover (if your mind can accept it) that the tool is irrelevant. The Professional is the photographer. The camera is only a tool.
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Hey, buy what you want, but you seem like your getting interested in photography, so why buy offbeat stuff?
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- Your attitude is the only thing that's off-beat here.
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Old Dec 5, 2005, 10:06 PM   #28
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Davemell0 wrote:
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In my experience the *istDS is a an equal or superior camera to the others in this price range. As Terry suggests please consider the photos on Pbase particularly those from the limited series pentax lenses, In my opinion they are far better than any other offerings in the 500-1000 dollar price range. As everyone seems to be very fond of saying, when you buy an slr you are buying into a system, and pentax offers the best prime lenses available for an slr. If your focus is sports or you'd like to purchase your camera at best buy, than pentax might not be an option, but otherwise I find the ds to be competitive, and the limited lenses close to Leica and Ziess quality.
You mean Pentax primes from the wide to short tele range are the best ever made if one considers the defocus quality? Yes I would agree, considering the DA 14/2.8, FA* 24/2, FA 28/2.8, FA 31/1.8 Limited, FA 35/2, DA 40/2.8 Limited, FA 43/1.9 Limited, FA 50/1.7, and the FA 77/1.8 Limited.

But if you need primes longer than 200mm, then Canon is the way to go (factoring in availability, the FA* 200/2.8,FA* 300/2.8, FA* 400/4.5, and F* 600/4and are notoriously hard to find these days).
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Old Dec 5, 2005, 10:13 PM   #29
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Richx,

Your losing the plot man.

I was comparing the oly to the pentax to the rebelxt to the nikon d50.

These are prosumer and entry level DSLR's. We were'nt talking about the higher end cams, as his price range is below $900Canadian it seems.

The wide angle lens on the oly, with the cropping factor starts at 28mm in 35mm terms.

The wider angle oly's are very expensive. Why buy a $700 body and try to afford, like the $800 11-22 or the $1800 7-14?

So if you have less than a grand to spend, including maybe one lens over the kit, that narrows the choice down.

Well, I disagree with you. It's the photographer and the tool. You didn't see Ansel Adams heading out into the wilderness with the cheapest crap he could get his hands on? lol..

If it were the case, we'd all still be using pin hole cameras.

Terry


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Old Dec 5, 2005, 10:14 PM   #30
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I'm sorry if I passed judgement on you sooner than I should, but ...

[email protected] wrote:
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I agree, usability is definitely a factor. I've always liked the Minolta's from that respect. Yah, the Fuji dsr's are serious cams, no doubt.
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At first, I wasn't sure if I made the right decision, as I find the cam large and heavy, somewhat difficult to set the ISO and the jpeg images slightly soft out of the cam.
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- This shows that you paid little attention to the usability factor at the time of purchase, and then later forced yourself to get used to it. Yes, the 20D is a good camera - but our man here is looking at absolute entry-level models, so your experience here is hard to replicate.
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But as I got used to the cam, I really began to appreciate the image quality, build quality, nice shots at high ISO's and responsiveness.
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- Almost every other SLR in the market offers the above mentioned features as well, of course, with various levels of competency.
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I agree that a good photographer is where's it at, but I really think in the digital world its the photographer AND the equipment that makes it happen.

Once you've grown into a high end cam, it's a tough road back to an inferior one.
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- Perhaps for your field, where the results are rather technology-dependant. Almost every other form of photography outside of sports are more "artistic imagination" dependant.
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I bought a cheapo point and shoot as a second digicam and regretted it. As creative as I could be, I just wasn't happy with the images.
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- Perhaps you weren't creative enough to try "lomo" - not that I support that movement ... Hahahaha LoLz )
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I just bought an Canon S80 as a second cam (no RAW, but I'll take the 8mp images and the 28-100 lens in a point and shoot.
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- Decent camera,but there are many othe cameras starting at 28mm-equivalent these days.
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