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Old Jan 8, 2006, 6:10 PM   #1
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Hello my name is Dave, basically a new to the digital camera world. I have a cheapo 2 mp HP that barely works, only good for stills. Probably about a 2-3 second delay between photos at best.

Anyway I need a better one. I have read a few of the topics on here but I would like to hear more.

Anyway I have sports kids, football, basketball etc... and I also raise pigeons and for this I take some indoor low light shots. I am willing to spend about $350 but would prefer to stay around $300 if at all possible.

The 5 mp range of cameras seem to be good enough for me. I am only looking for good 8x10 photos at best. Im not a pro or anything.

The Canon A610 looks good to me, as for the A620 but I am concerned about whether the 2x adapter will be good enough for good indoor sports shots or outdoor long range shots like on a football field. I like the burst mode on the cameras and think this will do well for sports shots, and this should somewhat compensate for a slower upload as I don't plan to take a whole bunch of consecutive shots but I would like to have that ability if need be.

I am intriqued by the Sony H1, a little out of my range right now?, and the Panasonic FZ5. I have handled the FZ at Circuit City and think it's a nice camera, very small. I think I would prefer a little bigger.

I have seen the Kodaks 740 and 7590 but they don't have a IS and wonder if they'll be good from the hand with a long range shot?

so basically I want a good reliable camera and one that takes good indoor and outdoor shots but the images dont' have to be perfect by any means. As I said I will print more 4x6 prints than anything and many of my photos I edit with Microsofts Image software before I print. I can change much about this photos before I print them to include focus or tint, or color.

I am a little hesitant about the Panasonics as I have had more then my fair share of problems with Panasonic's electronics over the years when I swore by them. In the mid 90's the stuff in my opinion was more junk then anything. I hear the Canon's are the best.

As I said I am very interested in the Canon A models but they only have a 4x optical, any ideas would be great if you could give me some other ways of considering what would be best for me? This camera needs to take good photo in auto mode as my wife would be using it also. So picking it up to take some auto shots needs to be a plus.

Dave


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Old Jan 8, 2006, 8:36 PM   #2
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Spintight-

If you can stay within 10 to 15 feet from your subjects (particularly the pigeons) a 3X optical zoom camera like the Canon A-610 or the A-620 will work well. But particularly with kids sports, simtimes you cannot get that close, therefore the idea of an ultra zoom digital camera like the Fuji S-5200 or the Panasonic FZ-5 might not be a bad idea.

Keep in mind the on-camera flash on those camera only reaches toabot 10to 12 feet, beyond that you are going to add so more flash by using an accessory slave flash mounted on an accessory flash bracket. The added flash will take you out to about 40 feet providing that you increase the camera's ISO setting when you are beyond about 20 feet.

It will take some experimenting, with some photos to get the hang of it, but you will increase your photography skills in the process. Here is what a slave flash set-up looks like.

Good Luck!

MT
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Old Jan 8, 2006, 9:42 PM   #3
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MT,

sounds like the S5200 is a good camera for what I would want. I have seen some of the photos that were taken indoors without a flash on stills and they looked very good.

So the ISO setting is something I'll have to experiment with huh?

So outdoors with action shots the S5200 will do the job huh? Does it have a burst shot etc...? And someone mentioned you can get an extra lens for it?

Do you have any outdoor action shots with it that you can show to me?

So the A610 or A620 will not work on action shots indoors? what does the ISO adjust to on those cameras?

Will the s5200 work as a good point and shoot for my wife when she needs it?

it's definitely in my price range. Where can you obtain a slave flash as you show in the photo?

Also do those 2x lens adaptors work? I recall in photo class in HS that they cut down the light somewhat so indoors with one of those is not the best ideas huh?

Does anyone have any ideas how the Canon A610 does at a sporting event indoors or is that completely out of it's realm of a job, they have a 4x optical.

So what range will the 4x optical pick up on an outdoor setting? My old HP had zero optical zoom and everything looked very far away.

Example; if I'm shooting a football action shot and the objects are about 1/2 the field away will a 4x optical do the job?

Dave

ps MT I posted the 2nd one as I was more interested in learning about the S5200 specifically, the other post was comparing several models



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Old Jan 9, 2006, 8:49 AM   #4
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Dave-

My Goodness , but you have so many questions. Let's take them one by one, shall we?

Yes, you will have to experiment a bit with increases in the ISO, when using a slave flash, because every environment in which you take a photo either "swallows" or reflect light from a flash in a different way.

I believe that the S-5200 does have a slow burst mode, please check the actual reviews to be sure.

Yes, accessory lens are available for the S-5200. However, I would not consider an "add-on" telephoto lens. Because when using an accessory lens you, realistically, would have to have the S-5200 on a tripod to be sure of getting really sharp photos.

No, I am sorry I do not have any outdoor action shots right at my fingertips. I shoot more people and landscapes.

Please under stan that the Canon A-610/620 cameras are very good cameras. The ISO max setting is 400. They can take fine action shots. You just have to be very close indeed to your subject.

The Fuji S05200 can easily be set to an automatic mode, so that even a beginner will have no trouble with most outdoor, non action photos.

There are a number of slave flashes available. Two of the most popular are the Sunpak DS-20 and the Vivitar DF-200.

I personally would not use2X teleconvertors. They reduce the amount of light through the lens andtaking hand held photos at very long zoom ranges, would surely require that thecamera be placed on a tripod.

Again, the 4X optical zoom found on theCanon A-610/620 I would assume would be the absolute minimum working range at a sporting event. You would have to be right on the very sidelines of the field and the action would have to be directly in front of you. It does not seem practical to me at all.

I will be gone for about 10 days conducting a digital camera workshop. So if you don't see me in the forum for a bit, please understand that I am not ignoring you.

MT
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Old Jan 9, 2006, 11:42 AM   #5
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"Example; if I'm shooting a football action shot and the objects are about 1/2 the field away will a 4x optical do the job?"

Not really. You'll probably find yourself wanting to crop the image often to get a tighter shot. I'd go with one of the ultra-zooms, preferably with image stabilization. If you're shooting night games, there's really nothing short of a DSLR that will work well.
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Old Jan 9, 2006, 5:24 PM   #6
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yes, for indoor action you need a DSLR for satisfactory results. For indoor shots without motion the FZ5 is fine, because of the image stabiliser. Kodak also has an ultrazoom with image stabiliser, the P850. The FZ5 is smaller and image quality is slightly better, while the P850 is the sole 5 MP ultrazoom supporting the raw mode and it has a [email protected] fps movie mode (from the one clip I have seen so far, movie quality is very poor, though).
As mtclimber I hate addon lenses. They make the camera big, image quality is usually inferior and for cameras with OVF like the A610/A620 you have to use the LCD resulting in even more shake. Thus for the A610/A620 a tele converter is really useless.
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Old Jan 9, 2006, 6:29 PM   #7
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Slight correction, the Fuji S5200 supports RAW as well, unless you do not consider 10x 380mm lens an ultrazoom. P850 only has iso800 support at 1MP resolution. iso400 from the P850 is even worse than both the Sony H1 and FZ5, maybe iso400 RAW output from the camera is better, haven't seen any samples yet, though.

The S5200 also supports 640x480 video mode, video quality is very good, in my opinion, but the audio is a bit muffled. You can't zoom in and out either when recording.

curtis


kassandro wrote:
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yes, for indoor action you need a DSLR for satisfactory results. For indoor shots without motion the FZ5 is fine, because of the image stabiliser. Kodak also has an ultrazoom with image stabiliser, the P850. The FZ5 is smaller and image quality is slightly better, while the P850 is the sole 5 MP ultrazoom supporting the raw mode and it has a [email protected] fps movie mode (from the one clip I have seen so far, movie quality is very poor, though).
As mtclimber I hate addon lenses. They make the camera big, image quality is usually inferior and for cameras with OVF like the A610/A620 you have to use the LCD resulting in even more shake. Thus for the A610/A620 a tele converter is really useless.
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Old Jan 9, 2006, 6:40 PM   #8
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I found these football night shots from the Kodak p850, these are taken at iso100 with shutter of around 1/80s, so I think at least for professional football, there should be enough light for good shots. For high school football or basketball game, maybe tougher.


http://forums.dpreview.com/forums/re...ssage=16332261

lucky2505 wrote:
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"Example; if I'm shooting a football action shot and the objects are about 1/2 the field away will a 4x optical do the job?"

Not really. You'll probably find yourself wanting to crop the image often to get a tighter shot. I'd go with one of the ultra-zooms, preferably with image stabilization. If you're shooting night games, there's really nothing short of a DSLR that will work well.
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Old Jan 10, 2006, 1:21 AM   #9
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Curtis,
yes, you are right. The Fuji S5200 is certainly an ultrazoom - at least with respect to the zoom range. On the other hand, a 380 mm tele is pretty useless without an image stabiliser and no Fuji has one.
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Old Jan 10, 2006, 10:36 AM   #10
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Hi kassandro,

While I agree that it is pretty hard to avoid camera shake at 380mm without I.S., you can compensate for this with some support such as a tripod/monopod, seating on a chair, kneeling on the floor, or leaning a a wall. I can get camera shake-free shot down to 1/60s by using this method while taking a picture in burst mode. The first picture will usually be blurry because your finger pressing the shutter will cause some movement, but the 2nd and last shot willl come out blur-free.

I.S. will provide you around a 2-fstop advantage, so with that in mind, the rule of thumb shutterspeed to avoid camera blur is 1/focal length. A 2-fstop advantage from I.S. means you can take a full-zoom 380mm handheld shot without any support down to 1/100s, any lower and you will have to use a tripod or some other support.

No doubt, it would be nice to have both high iso performance and I.S. in a camera, but if you have to choose only one or the other, there is no doubt which one I will choose - high iso any day.

curtis



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