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Old Jan 12, 2006, 1:44 PM   #1
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I have looked for information over this two model and by myself did not made strong decision which is preferable one.

Want to ask for your opinion as maybe some of you are user or used sometime one of this or both and can give me what is better to choose.

Price for Canon eos350d is 990 eur with ef-s 18-55mm lens

price for NIkon d70s is 1025 eur with af-sdx 18-70mm lens.

First, what is the differance in lens and what is meaningto to a user. Why there is no ISO 100 on NIkon and does it makeCanon with better quality photos. Canon 8mpx but NIkon 6mpx.....what that means to a guality between this two.

In global which one is better to choose.

Thanks

Zak
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Old Jan 13, 2006, 11:44 AM   #2
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......Also I was thinking about KonicaMinolta 5D as an option with lower price=850 eur with lens.

Is this differance in price could be an option or the differance in guality is that big so that the price is no near to talk abot.

Thanks

Zak
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Old Jan 13, 2006, 12:26 PM   #3
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My vote would be for the KM 5D, even if it were more expensive.

But, I'm biased (as I have one of these cameras). ;-)

Anti-shake is really nice to have for existing light shooting without a tripod, and it works with all my lenses, including brighter primes. ISO speeds up to ISO 3200, anti-shake, and available bright lenses allows me to take photos in conditions that I wouldn't be able to with competing cameras without a tripod. That was important to me (but it may not be to you).

In addition to reading reviews and looking at images, I'd suggest trying out the cameras you're considering in a store. Make sure you're comfortable with them (ergonomics, control layout, viewfinder, menus, speed of operation, etc.).
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Old Jan 13, 2006, 3:07 PM   #4
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Doesn't the KM 5D have a slower shutter? I was considering that one as well, but then I got a post saying it wasn't a good indoor/low-light sports camera...what are your thoughts? Thank you.
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Old Jan 13, 2006, 4:39 PM   #5
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futbol mom wrote:
Quote:
Doesn't the KM 5D have a slower shutter?
What do you mean by slower shutter? Do you mean shutter speeds?

If so, the shutter speed a camera can use for proper exposure depends on the ISO speed, the aperture of the lens, and the lighting conditions.

You can get fast lenses (a.k.a., brighter lenses for faster shutter speeds) or slower lenses (a.k.a., dimmer lenses), which means you have smaller available apertures resulting in slower shutter speeds for a given lighting condition and ISO speed.

Bright primes are popular for indoor sports. The KM 5D also supports ISO speeds up to ISO 3200 (something missing on some entry level models like the Nikon D50 and Canon EOS-350D/Digital Rebel XT).

So, if you're looking for faster shutter speeds in low light, I don't think you'll do any better (and it's anti-shake also helps to reduce blur from camera shake).

Or, do you mean number of photos in a burst, cycle times?

The camera is actually pretty fast (running at around 3 frames per second shooting JPEG until the buffer is full) for a camera in it's class, and with a fast (for example Sandisk Extreme III) card, it's probably as fast, or faster writing to media than any other camera you can buy for under several thousand dollars, too (megabytes per second writing to CompactFlash).

For example, Rob Galbraith's tests of compactflash performance from various models are here:

http://www.robgalbraith.com/bins/mul...e.asp?cid=6007

Some user tests for the 5D are here:

http://www.dyxum.com/reviews/cfcard/index.asp

Here are some figures I pulled a while back (they may have changed on more recent tests, though):

Sandisk Extreme III 1GB CompactFlash Card (write time to media in raw):

Konica Minolta 5D.......... 8.88 MB/Sec
Canon EOS-1D Mark II....... 7.17 MB/sec
Canon EOS-20D.............. 6.26 MB/sec
Nikon D70.................. 4.56 MB/sec

That makes it the 5D approximately 24% faster than the Canon EOS-1D Mark II, 42% faster than the Canon EOS-20D, and 95% faster than the Nikon D70, at writing to media. ;-)


It's buffer is not as large as some (only around 5 photos whether shooting in raw or extra fine jpeg). Of course, you can choose to shoot in fine mode for better flush times, too.

But, it's still pretty fast, even after the buffer is full. It will actually write at around 1 frame per second shooting in raw (which are very large files), *after* the buffer is full (jpeg is much faster).

Noise levels are also outstanding (and you'd want to use higher ISO speeds to get faster shutter speeds in low light). Check out the noise versus ISO speed graphs that Dave Etchells compiled using Imatest here:

http://www.imaging-resource.com/PROD...M5DIMATEST.HTM

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Old Jan 13, 2006, 6:38 PM   #6
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Hi Jim C. Thank you so much for all the information and web site info. I was interested in the KM 5D initially, but was in a forum somewhere and read that the 5D had a hard time with a moving subject and producing clear images. I tried to re-read through some of the forums I had been looking at to find where I had gotten the information...couldn't find it. I am a beginner/intermediate photographer trying to upgrade my Fuji S602. I take a lot of low-light/indoor shots (dance, karate, basketball) andam looking for a good dslr. I was going over my notes andI had marked off the5D with a side note of slow shutter...hence never taking another look at it. I also had another note saying "lower ISO image noise indoor" (I now realize I am going to have to be more complete in my note taking!)...have you encountered any of these issues? Thank you for your help and knowledge.:?

FBmom
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Old Jan 13, 2006, 6:55 PM   #7
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Shooting moving subjects in low light is going to be tough, no matter which camera you choose.

Chances are, the Canon and Nikon models have a slight edge in Autofocus speed. But, with equivalent lenses, I doubt you'd see a lot of real world difference.

Indoor sports are tough (just getting shutter speeds up fast enough can be difficult). So, you'll want to make sure you're using a bright lens (larger available apertures, represented by smaller f/stop numbers).

The "kit" lenses available with DSLR models are not going to "cut it" for indoor sports (unless you can use a powerful flash).

An inexpensive choice would be something like a 50mm f/1.7 if you can get close enough. These are under $100.00 brand new (and around $50 used).

You'll also find a similar 50mm lens (50mm f/1.8 from Nikon and Canon for their models.

If you need something longer, you can find a variety of lenses from the camera manufacturers, as well as vendors like Sigma, Tamron and Tokina.

Depending on lighting, you *might* be able to get away with a zoom shooting at higher ISO speeds indoors (but, you could get faster shutter speeds with a prime, since they are available in brighter versions than you'll find with zoom lenses).

I'd make sure to stick with a lens that has a constant f/2.8 aperture throughout the focal range if you go with a zoom.




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Old Jan 13, 2006, 7:36 PM   #8
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Jim can you explain what a "prime" is. I don't understand your statment "(but, you could get faster shutter speeds with a prime, since they are available in brighter versions than you'll find with zoom lenses)."

I have never had to deal with lenses before, so this is new to me. I didn't even know that you could get one with a constant apature of f1.7.

Thanks again!

FBmom


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Old Jan 13, 2006, 8:10 PM   #9
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FutbolMom-

A "prime" lens is a lens of just a single focal length. It does not zoom through a range of focal lengths. The advantage of a prime lens is that the lens is a fast lens. That means that it has a wide aperature which lens in the maximum light. Thus because you have maximum light, the shutter speed will be a bit higher on the exposure.

However, a 50mm prime lens mean zero zoom. That means you are goiong to have to be right on top of the action. I sincerlely don't think that will solve your sports action photosproblem.

You previously mentioned that you could use flash. By adding a flash to the equation, there is indeed a possible solution for your sports action photos problem, and it does not necessarily have to be a dSLR solution. It can be done with the Canon S-2 quite nicely, at a good deal lesser cost.

However, the choice is entirely yours.In other postsyouseem a bitfearful of slave flashes, but I will coach you through any problems and provide photo examples of exactly the photos you desire. If I am a bother, feel free to tell me to buzz off, and I will disappear. Please just know that there is a less expensive solution.

MT
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Old Jan 13, 2006, 8:43 PM   #10
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Hey MT. It's good to hear from you. I actually left you a question on the other post we have been chatting on. If you wouldn't mind reading that so I don't have to retype it that would be great. In a nut shell, I did purchase a slave flash. It should be here any day. And No, you are not a bother! You have been so much help to me I can't even tell you! It takes a while for this stuff to sink in with me so I'm the one worried about being a pain. People with photography knowledge in our small townare hard to come by so having someone to explain it is very helpful. I look forward to your response at the other post.

FBmom
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