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Old Jan 21, 2006, 5:31 PM   #11
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The Kodak P850 can capture a 5cm target from full zoom or partial zoom. That gives you some advantages. You don't have barrel distortion to deal with and lighting is easier without the lens close to the subject. You also get better corner sharpness and you can use the flash without the lens causing shadows. That is a big advantage if you don't have a stand set up for the camera as the flash freezes any hand motion.

Most other cameras require larger target areas as you zoom.

The stabilization helps a lot in lower light if the target isn't moving.

Most cameras with good macros will show your imperfections with sharp lighting from a direction that enhances them. Softer light helps. You might also tweak them with Neat Image. The demo version is considered freeware for non-commercial use and doesn't expire. It is good for removing blemishes as well as noise.

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Old Jan 21, 2006, 6:45 PM   #12
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slipe wrote:
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The Kodak P850 can capture a 5cm target from full zoom or partial zoom. That gives you some advantages. You don't have barrel distortion to deal with and lighting is easier without the lens close to the subject. You also get better corner sharpness and you can use the flash without the lens causing shadows. That is a big advantage if you don't have a stand set up for the camera as the flash freezes any hand motion.

Most other cameras require larger target areas as you zoom.

The stabilization helps a lot in lower light if the target isn't moving.

Most cameras with good macros will show your imperfections with sharp lighting from a direction that enhances them. Softer light helps. You might also tweak them with Neat Image. The demo version is considered freeware for non-commercial use and doesn't expire. It is good for removing blemishes as well as noise.
Slipe-

I really do respect every one of your excellent posts. However, in this case you might be just a little off base. I own a Kodak P-850, and in my personal opinion, it certainly is not your best macro/close-up digital camera. I have been in the trenches and I have taken macro/close-up photos with the Kodak P-850. I am sorry to report that the P-850 is not stellar when it comes to close-ups.

Somehow we have to separate actual camera users (in this case the Kodak P-850 users) from the ultra intelligent, ultra experienced folks who read the camera specs.

The Kodak P-850 just does not take good close-up photos. So why are you recommending the P-850 for this person's macro situation?

Do you have first hand experience with the P-850 in the macro mode that I have been missing? Please clue me in, won't you?

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Old Jan 21, 2006, 7:33 PM   #13
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Slipe-

I don't want to create a problem at all. But, can you tell me if you own a Kodak P-850, yourself and aremaking your posted evaluations based solely on personal, hands on, real/actualexperience,in physically handlingthe KodakP-850?

I dare say, that is a VERY important issue to myself and many other readers of this forum. Thanks, in advance for your very specific and honest answers.

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Old Jan 22, 2006, 5:53 AM   #14
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I appreciate everyone's thoughts and respect the experiance with taking macro shots with both the Fuji and the P850, I do believe that some of the problem with the P850 is if you try to jam up close to a shot, as it is mainly a zoom camera and made primarily for that purpose.

If someone has some high quality macros taken with the P850 I would appreciate seeing them. The fuji did quite well, Thank you for posting that stamp picture, this is exactly what type of subject I need a camera for.

I have read professional reviews that do say that the P850 did a good, but not great job with macros.. and that was what confused me over buying that particular camera in the first place.

Though I will search futher into the Fuji.. also the 9000.. but I know nothing about that company, or their cameras, and am hesitant to jump into something that foreign to me when spending this kind of money.

Ireallyhaving flower, &close up modes at least, if not an official "macro" mode. I look at the specs from the P850, and I am not sure but Idont see macro or flower modes availible.

I am now looking at the Cannon IS andthe new Kodak think it is DX7590, which seems to be the upgrade from the DX6490,thoughtheI think neither of theseKodakshasa manual focus, and that is worring.

The problem is that I need to make a decision, Imust to take my pictures indoors this time of year, and am ata stand still with my old camera.

If anyone can post macros similar to the Fuji example from any of these mentioned cameras, It would truely help me make a decision more quickly.

I really did fall in love with theP850, but think really it is not the camera that is the perfect fit for my needs..

Thank you everyonefor your insights!

Meg
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Old Jan 22, 2006, 1:01 PM   #15
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Quote:
Somehow we have to separate actual camera users (in this case the Kodak P-850 users) from the ultra intelligent, ultra experienced folks who read the camera specs.

The Kodak P-850 just does not take good close-up photos. So why are you recommending the P-850 for this person's macro situation?

Do you have first hand experience with the P-850 in the macro mode that I have been missing? Please clue me in, won't you?
I don't own a P850. I also have never been one to do my product research on Epinions. That Joe Dufas gets blurry photos indoors with his Super EX7250 isn't of interest to me if Steve, Jeff, Dave, Phil and Simon say it focuses well in low light. I can combine the professional reviewer's information with the aperture, ISO capability and whether it has stabilization to come up with a very good estimate of how it would perform for me in limited light. That Joe owns a Super EX7250 isn't of significance to me. I'm defending my reliance on professional testers and not equating your opinion with Joe Dufas. You obviously know what you are doing and I am perplexed that Dave and Simon are getting good macro shots and you aren't.

I find you have to combine a couple of macro tests to get a good idea of overall capability. Imaging Resource has a pretty decent real-world test target and tests the flash capability at the closest focus distance. Dave doesn't test the macro at anything but full wide angle though. Phil and Simon at dpreview shoot test patterns that show distortion and area both at wide and full zoom. Now that Simon is available to test cameras that are below Phil's pro standards there is often good information there on consumer level cameras.

This is what Imaging resource said about the macro on the P850:
" Macro
A small macro area with good detail and high resolution. Flash is partially blocked by the camera's long lens.
The Kodak P850's macro setting performs pretty well, capturing a small minimum area of 3.23 x 2.42 inches (82 x 62 millimeters). Detail and resolution are both very good, with only slight softening in the corners of the frame from the lens. (Most cameras have some softening in the corners in macro mode.) The P850's rather long lens gets in the way of the flash up close though, resulting in a harsh shadow in the lower portion of the frame. (Plan on using external lighting for your closest macro shots with the P850.)"

Dave posted this full sized shot he took with the P850:
http://www.imaging-resource.com/PROD...ES/P850MAC.HTM

Detail on the dollar bill looks to be quite good. The blue threads in the paper are quite sharp.

I have come to feel that cameras that can get a small area when zoomed are better for macro than cameras that require the lens to be close to the subject in full wide to get the smallest area. That is where dpreview reviews are good. The P850 is one of those cameras that will maintain the minimum macro area with zoom. That lets you get better light on the subject and use flash. It also eliminates the barrel distortion. This includes the dpreview macro test: http://www.dpreview.com/reviews/kodakp850/page6.asp This is the full sized image at full zoom, which also seems to be reasonably sharp: http://www.dpreview.com/reviews/Koda...ro/tele10x.JPG The squares evidently are a centimeter across.

If I took thousands of macro shots for commercial purposes I would build a light box. If that was too much trouble I would at least make a copy stand with decent lighting. But since collectorsnest doesn't seem to want to go to that trouble, a camera that could take good macro flash shots would seem a good alternative to waiting for the sun to shine.

The macro area on the P850 isn't small enough for things like small insects to show the fine detail of the eyes. The Canon S2 is great for that since you can focus on something actually touching the lens. The S2 also will fill the same area as the P850 at full zoom, as will the Sony H1. But Simon said this of the very close focus distance capabilities:
" In most cases the shadow of the lens obscures your subject so much that you can't use it at distances of less than a few centimetres, at which point the subect area you're photographing is around 40mm across - roughly the same as most of its competitors"
Even to fill a frame with 4cm it seems it would take a lot of maneuvering to get sunlight on the subject, and flash would be impossible. For collectorsnest's purposes it seems the P850 would do fine unless you can point out a glitch in the macro that Dave and Simon missed. His two sample photos seem to be within the P850's range. The S2 is a better macro machine, but he seems to like Kodak colors.

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Old Jan 22, 2006, 1:25 PM   #16
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Ok.. so now I am back on the Kodak P850.. that dollar bill picture looks pretty detailed.

And it is not that I don't want to go to the trouble of setting up a box or nice indoor area to shoot, it's is that I live in a tiny Dutch house, where the garden is probably bigger than my living area. My inventory is kept in the garden shed, or in tupperware bins on a shelf in my bedroom.

So it is very much a lack of space to shoot in. So, if I can shoot something on the livingdining room window sill, that's exactly what I have to do.

The P850 was the first one I was drawn to, and for anything over 2 or $300.00, I better go with a company that I am familiar with and I trust.

Thanks everyone for your lively discussions, and I will be sure to post some macros taken indoors, with my new Kodak P850..

and then we will know if I made the correct decision..

Meg
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Old Jan 24, 2006, 1:56 PM   #17
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I hope you can return it if you are not satisfied. I too got the p850 and was so disappointed--the reviews sounded good. I needed something fast for nature shots and the Kodak just couldn't keep up with me.I finally compared pics taken with my older 3 mp kodak cx6330 and was astonished how much clearer, sharper and better it was. I returned it luckily and after a brief interlude with the panasonic fz5, found something I can live with, canon s2. Good luck with your new p850. I just hope I got one from a bad batch at Sam's Club. Hope yours is better. Go Well, Ron.
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Old Jan 24, 2006, 5:11 PM   #18
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How can the reports of user after user of the Kodak P-850 about the much less than perfect performance of the P-850, not be sounding a bugle call in your ears.

A camera, such as the P-850, should be able to easily and consistently take theexcellent macro photos that you desire. Perhaps it is just me. However, I have a lot of experience, and I cannot consistently take excellent, sharp macro photos with the P-850.

It is entirely your choice, but if I were in your situation, I would be making haste to return that camera. Certainly, a camera such as either the DX-6490 or the DX-7590 can do a much better job,for less money.

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Old Jan 24, 2006, 8:25 PM   #19
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mtclimber The Z750 has the same 10cm closest focus distance at wide as the P850. There have been several threads on the Casio forums here and at dpreview by people getting blurry macro shots. In each case it turned out that they were holding the camera too close to the target for the capability of the camera. They were mostly people whose previous camera had a closer macro focus distance.

As I said previously, the P850 isn't the camera of choice for people who want extreme closups.

collectorsnest Measure out 9cm width and realize that is the smallest area the P850 can fill a frame with. If you get a smaller area in the viewfinder or LCD it probably isn't going to focus for you. The nice feature is that it will still capture that 9cm wide area when zoomed. Many cameras won't do that.

If you need a camera that will fill a frame with a smaller area than that, the P850 isn't the best choice.

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Old Jan 24, 2006, 8:34 PM   #20
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Well said, Slipe-

Really determining which camera will take the photos you desire, as you have so well noted, is the key issue here. IMHO the Kodak P-850 may indeed not be the ideal camera for this macro work.

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