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Old Feb 13, 2006, 10:04 AM   #11
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The others are right: the Oly E-330 is currently the only dSLR with live preview--although that may change later this month after PMA (Panasonic is rumored to be ready to announce their own 4/3 dSLR, which may have live preview). Speaking of which, I got a chance to attend the roll-out seminar for the E-330 at Olympus headquarters in Tokyo last weekend, and did a photo writeup of the experience; if you're interested, look HERE.


"A telephone hawker in western Shinjuku gives away portable telephones for 0 yen in exchange for a telephone service contract":

Olympus E-300 + ZD14-54mm, ISO 800 + Silkypix



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Old Feb 13, 2006, 10:19 AM   #12
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But, keep in mind that the live preview modes in the E330 are somewhat limited compared to a prosumer like the KM DiMAGE A2.

The E-330 has a separate sensor that's being used to generate the preview in full time live preview mode. So, I wouldn't expect the output to be accurate for blinking highlights, etc. (since it could not have the same characteristics as the main sensor due to it's tiny size).

If you want to use the main sensor for the live preview, it's much more limited (mirror lockup, 1 second delay before taking photo after pressing shutter button, etc.).

IOW, I look at it as more of a "gimmick" at this point (although for Macros, it could come in handy).

Perhaps Sony will surprise us with future releases. But, using a larger sensor for a live preview does not seem to be practical, yet (existing DSLR sensors were not designed with a fast refresh rate in mind).

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Old Feb 13, 2006, 10:45 AM   #13
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JimC wrote:
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But, keep in mind that the live preview modes in the E330 are somewhat limited compared to a prosumer like the KM DiMAGE A2.
Yeap! I agree...





Check it out (the manual mode): http://www.steves-digicams.com/2004_reviews/a2_pg4.html
"You use the brightness of the image on the LCD or EVF as a visual exposure meter, adjusting the shutter speed or aperture accordingly. In the bottom right the "DMF" icon indicates..."

-> for the price of one EF lens with IS why not get the whole camera? :idea:
with an excellent 28-200 'G' with built-in anti-shake - and no need to swap lens! :-) :lol: :G
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Old Feb 13, 2006, 11:05 AM   #14
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Well, in the OP's case (already has a 20D), I don't see the point for use in nightclubs. Light is just too low.

If he can't see what he wants to shoot in the viewfinder, I'd question his lens choice.

I have no problems finding my subjects in extremely low light with my KM 5D using a bright prime (in light requiring shutter speeds as slow as 1/5 second at ISO 3200 and f/2.5 for proper exposure).

If he's shooting in light even lower, an amplified live view using a prosumer isn't going to help the photos being produced, as his shutter speeds are going to be too slow at the slower ISO speeds available, unless he plans on using a flash ;-)

IOW, it sounds like he needs a brighter lens for use with his 20D if he can't see well enough for framing in the clubs he's taking photos inside of.




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Old Feb 13, 2006, 11:25 AM   #15
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True... but that doesn't mean it's not any good (for non-action) :idea:

This was taken eon ago at night with even an older Dimage
http://www.pbase.com/nhl/daynight_comparison
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Old Feb 13, 2006, 1:31 PM   #16
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I really don't understand how a live LCD would be a benefit over SLR OVF for dark nightclub pictures. I used a friend's EVF camera at a new years eve party this year, and would have been much better off with an OVF. It was only refreshing at about 2fps... ugh.

I do think it's a useful feature, but not particularly for this.
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Old Feb 13, 2006, 1:40 PM   #17
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pterrr wrote:
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I really don't understand how a live LCD would be a benefit over SLR OVF for dark nightclub pictures. I used a friend's EVF camera at a new years eve party this year, and would have been much better off with an OVF. It was only refreshing at about 2fps... ugh.
That's one of the problems with using a live feed in low light. Manufacturers typically use two techniques so that it's not too dim to see.

One is to slow down the refresh rate.

After all, if you tried to take a photo at 1/30 second indoors without a flash, you'd get dark photos with most prosumer cameras. The same thing applies to the LCD or EVF. If you try to refresh the display at 30 frames per second, you'd also get a dark display in dim lighting (they need to let the photosites in the camera's sensor build up a stronger signal before reading it).

The other thing they do is increase the gain (amplify the output of the sensor), just like increasing ISO speed. That's why many displays get "grainy" in low light from cameras using a live feed (it's noise).

So, when you do both (slow down the refresh rate, and amplify the output of the sensor), you get a "sluggish" *and* grainy display.

Yes, being able to get a live feed from a larger sensor in a DSLR would help to reduce those issues. But, nobody is shipping one quite that good, yet (larger sensors released so far, have not been designed for faster refresh rates needed for a good live feed).

They'll get there, eventually.

Added:

If you're not familiar with the Sony DSC-R1, it uses a live feed from it's CMOS Sensor, and also offers a live histogram feature.

But, Steve noted in his review that the display could smear/blur when panning with a moving subject (a characteristic of slower refresh rates, with delay being introduced from real time).

Also, even though the Sony's display gains up in low light, one professional reviewer called it noticeably less bright than a proper Optical Viewfinder.

So, Sony looks like they'll probably get there first (as Bill Drew mentioned), based on progress so far.

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Old Feb 13, 2006, 4:03 PM   #18
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JimC

Did you ever glance at the actual EVF in the Sony DSC-R1 yet?
Compare to an A2 the EVF in this Sony looks like a toy... (i.e big pixels)
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Old Feb 13, 2006, 4:07 PM   #19
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It's low resolution in comparison to the A2 and the refresh rate may not be as fast either. But, it's the first live feed we've seen from a larger sensor (i.e., almost as large as in most DSLR models) that appears to be somewhat workable.

Let's hope Sony takes the best from KM and adds some neat stuff of their own (for example, better main sensors) for future cameras.

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Old Feb 13, 2006, 4:12 PM   #20
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FYI - http://www.kopin.com/products/cyberd..._products.html
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