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Old Feb 12, 2006, 10:01 AM   #1
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I need your help selecting a digital dslr that has live preview before shooting. I recently purchased a canon 20d, but this camera does not provide live preview which is a function I need for dark nightclub picturs.
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Old Feb 12, 2006, 10:04 AM   #2
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I am not 100% sure, but I believe the Olympus E-330 is the only SLR with that capability.

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Old Feb 12, 2006, 10:12 AM   #3
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I heard Canon introduced the 20DA which provides live preview..Will they offer a upgrade from the 20D to the 20DA?? I really like the Canon, butthe live preview feature is very important to me


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Old Feb 12, 2006, 5:12 PM   #4
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I'm intrigued, why is a live preview important to you? I don't understand why it would be. What can you see on the LCD that you cannot see in the viewfinder?

The 20Da is probably not suitable, it's an astro-photography camera, not suitable for general photography.
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Old Feb 12, 2006, 5:20 PM   #5
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I agree with Peri...if you can't see it in the viewfinder, you won't be able to see it on the LCD. Unless you'll be holding the camera at an odd angle (ie. above your head), live preview won't help you. Also, with the larger size of a DSLR, using theLCD to frame, especially in low light, will make avoiding blurring due to camera shake more difficult.
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Old Feb 12, 2006, 7:50 PM   #6
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Very few dSLRs have that now, but I'd bet on it becoming a standard for entry level dSLRs in the very near future - from Sony if no one else. In the not distant future, I'd bet on EVFs replacing the mechanical miror system.

As for use: I'd likea liveview ofwhere the highlights are blown out and shadows blocked. Along with a live histogram of course. It would make getting the exposure right much faster. Can't think of any other advantage though.
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Old Feb 13, 2006, 3:06 AM   #7
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Don't get me wrong, I think it's a nice idea. It's just that the implementation is most likely to be along the lines of the new Olympus - a whole separate sensor for the live preview, so there will be a number of technical challenges.

We want it to have a real-time warning in case of blown highlights and histogram right? But, if the preview is coming off a different sensor (probably a very tiny cheap one) how accurate will that exposure data be?

I can't see a major advantage in the general case to being able to use the LCD for framing, and I can't see a major advantage in the general case for the live preview for exposure.

1. One can set exposure bracketing anyway.
2. The exposure details are available immediately after the shot with the current system.
3. If you're working with rapidly changing lighting conditions then I don't see the live preview being particularly helpful anyway.
4. If you're dealing with rapid movement and so on, then the optical viewfinder is far quicker and more reliable than an EVF could be.
5. Is the quality of the picture you see on the really any better through an EVF compared to an optical prism? It certainly doesn't seem that way to me.

I can see a lot of possible innovation with a system that isn't an SLR though - think of the Sony R1 with interchangable lenses for example!

Or something along the lines of a modern replacement for a rangefinder where the view is given by an LCD but it could use M-mount lenses.

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Old Feb 13, 2006, 4:48 AM   #8
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peripatetic wrote:
Quote:
The 20Da is probably not suitable, it's an astro-photography camera, not suitable for general photography.
Major difference to "original" is that IR filter in front of sensor isn't so sharp and it lets H-alfa wavelength through couple times better.
But they adjusted in camera processing to take increase in brightness of red pixels into account so there shouldn't be much any difference to original in normal use.
Astronomical association's member magazine had test of it so I could check was there any other special notes about it... if I just remember where I put that number.


BillDrew wrote:
Quote:
As for use: I'd like¬*a live¬*view of¬*where the highlights are blown out and shadows blocked.¬* Along with a live histogram of course.¬* It would make getting the exposure right much faster.¬* Can't think of any other advantage though.
How about amplification of live preview in poorer lightning?
Sharpness of OVF is no use if you can't see anything.


peripatetic wrote:
Quote:
4. If you're dealing with rapid movement and so on, then the optical viewfinder is far quicker and more reliable than an EVF could be.
5. Is the quality of the picture you see on the really any better through an EVF compared to an optical prism? It certainly doesn't seem that way to me.
That's not problem, getting higher refresh rates wouldn't require much developing.

5:
And that's because digicam reviewers (plus people) seem to forget all previous cameras when reading excrements of BS departments and are satisfied with low quality crap and half usefull/-less secondary features if it's just sold with fancy names backed by big BS budget.
Two years old KonicaMinolta A2 has 922000 pixel EVF with full VGA (640x480) resolution, in that you really don't see separate pixels anymore. (+in half resolution mode, 640x240, it gives 60 fps frefresh rate) As example I did some tests few days ago, I zoomed to object in ~2m/6ft distance, now seeing was camera focused to it or background ~30cm/12" farther was very easy, without any magnifying of live preview.
And there was talk about EVFs in Dpreview forum before A2's dumbed/stripped down "successor" A200 came out and apparently maker of A2's EVF could have made 1024x768 capable EVFs already soon after A2's EVF... so now making such propably wouldn't even cost much. (there was talk that A2's EVF display+implementation cost nearer 100$ at the time)


So all what is needed is users demanding those --> willingness of makers to implement those and that's the problem, makers don't feel compelled to do it because users seem to be very happy to lacks of current, 70+ years old, camera design made for entirely different "sensor" technology. (plus advertising such antique is cheaper than real innovation)

"A great many people think they are thinking when they are merely rearranging their prejudices."
-William James
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Old Feb 13, 2006, 8:20 AM   #9
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I agree: implementation will be the key point, but that can be said of just about everything.

peripatetic wrote:
Quote:
... We want it to have a real-time warning in case of blown highlights and histogram right? But, if the preview is coming off a different sensor (probably a very tiny cheap one) how accurate will that exposure data be? ...
Since the exposure in a dSLR is taken from a different senor, that seems to be the same problem.

peripatetic wrote:
Quote:
... I can't see a major advantage in the general case to being able to use the LCD for framing, and I can't see a major advantage in the general case for the live preview for exposure.

1. One can set exposure bracketing anyway.
2. The exposure details are available immediately after the shot with the current system.
3. If you're working with rapidly changing lighting conditions then I don't see the live preview being particularly helpful anyway.
4. If you're dealing with rapid movement and so on, then the optical viewfinder is far quicker and more reliable than an EVF could be.
5. Is the quality of the picture you see on the really any better through an EVF compared to an optical prism? It certainly doesn't seem that way to me. ...
1. At 11M/image shooting RAW+JPEG, even a large card is going to be filled up rather rapidly. Or spending a fair time squinting at a little LCD deleting the bad exposures.

2-4, I agree. Still it would be nice to be able to get the exposure right faster thanshoot, review, adjust, shoot, review, adjust, ...

5. The framing image doesn't have to be better, only as good or nearly as good. Might not be the case now, but I sure wouldn't bet against it happening in the reasonable future.

peripatetic wrote:
Quote:
... I can see a lot of possible innovation with a system that isn't an SLR though - think of the Sony R1 with interchangable lenses for example!

Or something along the lines of a modern replacement for a rangefinder where the view is given by an LCD but it could use M-mount lenses.
Pretty much what I was thinking of. With Sony's R1along withpicking up Minolta's lens mount and anti-shake system, I'd bet on them coming out with something real soon.
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Old Feb 13, 2006, 8:20 AM   #10
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logikmix wrote:
Quote:
I need your help selecting a digital dslr that has live preview before shooting. I recently purchased a canon 20d, but this camera does not provide live preview which is a function I need for dark nightclub picturs.
What are you going to use this camera for because I agree with E.T 100% ?

Me too I have the older KM A2 (also 8Mpixels):
1. For the price of only 1 EF lens with IS you can now get the A2 with an excellent 28-200 'G' (Minolta equivalent to the L) lens with built-in antishake! I don't believe one can get anything remotely similar in optical quality (or lightness) on a dSLR in term of lens with such a high ratio zoom...
2. The A2 EVF is superb in clarity for night scene
3. In manual, you get WYSIWYG (What You See Is What You Get) on the sensor with the aperture and shutter adjustment with a real-time histogram superimposed on the EVF!
-> I sometime use this setting (as a meter) from the A2 to set my dSLR to :idea:
http://luminous-landscape.com/review...location.shtml
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