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Old Feb 24, 2006, 1:13 PM   #21
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OK, looks like ISO 200, f2.8 at 1/60. Assuming the exposure was proper, this would mean increasing the ISO to 1600 would give you a shutter speed of 1/500 (3 stop ISO increase = 3 stop shutter increase). That is very good lighting. It would also mean you have a lot more options - the 2.8 means you can use a zoom lens and the ISO 1600 means you have more body options. Again, there are two major assumptions here:

1. The exposure was good

2. You'd be doing the majority of your work in that facility. Another facility might have worse lighting and might require 3200 or a faster prime lens.


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Old Feb 24, 2006, 1:24 PM   #22
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Both assumptions are correct. How does that translate in specific equipment. Which camera and lens would be a minimum starting point that I could add onto later. Are you familiar with any digicams that can do iso 1600 with a 2.8 lens? What DSLR/lens combo would serve me well at first?
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Old Feb 24, 2006, 1:31 PM   #23
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Great...

Was that exposed just right (brightness of image)?

Probably so, since that Oly has pretty good metering. But, any metering can be fooled a bit with wide dynamic range scenes (brighter lights in the image can fool them and underexpose). So, let us know if that exposure looked OK.

If so, you've got 1/17 second at ISO 200 and f/2.8

Lets round it to 1/15 second.

That translates to an EV (Exposure Value, which is a way to define a light level), which is about what I'd expect for a school gym.

So, with an f/2.8 lens on a DSLR, you'd be at 1/30 second at ISO 400, 1/60 second at ISO 800, 1/100 second at ISO 1600, or I/200 second at ISO 3200 for models that have ISO 3200.

If you want to stop all motion blur for indoor sports, you'd need even faster shutter speeds than a zoom at f/2.8 using ISO 3200 would give you.

But, as you get faster from what you're using now, your percentage will increase with shutter speeds. If you take lots of photos, you could even get by with what you've got. Set 'em to ISO 400 and try to underexpose 'em up to a stop (-1.0 EV setting using Expoosure Compensation). That will get you to the equivalent shutter speeds you'd have using ISO 800 at f/2.8 with a DSLR.

Then use something like the fill light feature in free Piccasa to brighten them up some, and use the free (Community Edition) of Noiseware or the free/demo version of Neat Image to reduce the noise.

Then, downsize them for the schools web site (to reduce the appearance of noise even more), which is what you said you needed the photos for, and you should get a much higher percentage of keepers compared to the way you're using the Oly E-100RS now at ISO 200.

Your percentage of keepers should also increase with experience, as your skill is just as for getting the shots you want.

In a DSLR solution (for even better results with some expoerience using one), I'd get two bright primes if I were you.

KM 5D or 7D
50mm f/1.4 or f/1.7
and
85mm f/1.4 or 100mm f/2

Nikon D50 or D70s
50mm f/1.2 or 50mm f/1.8
and
85mm f/1.4 or 85mm f/1.8

Canon Rebel XT or EOS-20D
50mm f/1.4, or /1.8
and
85mm f/1.2 or 85mm f/1.8 or 100mm f/2

Then, I'd use my feet for zoom.

You'll find various "flavours" of these lenses from each depending on age and version of the lenses (for example, USM AF with the Canon lenses, or AFS (the S is for Silent Wave Motor or SWM Autofocus), etc..

But, any of the bright primes should do a pretty good job for you, and you could stop them down to f/2.8 if light permitted if you wanted a bit better DOF compared to wide open, and get much sharper photos than you could with an f/2.8 zoom shooting at f/2.8.

So, that would be my solution if I were doing it.

Or, get yourself a 70-200mm f/2.8 zoom if you want more flexbility. Check the used market for 3rd party f/2.8 zooms and ask forum members about any choices you see available for the camera mount you buy. Tamron, Tokina and Sigma all make f/2.8 zooms in that general focal range.

Something like a Sigma 70-200mm f/2.8 EX APO or the older Sigma 70-210mm f/2.8 APO would be good ones to watch for on the used market in a higher quality zoom.

Ask about any specific third lens you see in the forums, as some older lenses may have compatibility issues from time to time and you can get some user opinions on a specific lens you see.

I'd use primes if I were doing it though. Smaller, Lighter, Sharper, just not as much flexibiility.

Any choice is a compromise and you'll need to decide what's best for your needs.

I got a 28mm f/2, 50mm f/1.7, 100mm f/2 and 135mm f/2.8 for my KM Maxxum 5D, all at bargain prices on the used market.

So, if you're a patient shopper and check the listings often at the reputable vendors of used gear (because the good deals get nabbed quickly), you can get what you need without a lot of trouble and at a much lower cost than you could find them for in new condition.

http://www.keh.com

http://www.bhphotovideo.com

http://www.adorama.com

Local camera stores, pawn shops, newspaper listings, ebay.

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Old Feb 24, 2006, 1:43 PM   #24
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JimC wrote:
Quote:
Great...

Was that exposed just right (brightness of image)?

Probably so, since that Oly has pretty good metering. But, any metering can be fooled a bit with wide dynamic range scenes (brighter lights in the image can fool them and underexpose). So, let us know if that exposure looked OK.

If so, you've got 1/17 second at ISO 200 and f/2.8
Jim, doesn't the EXIF read:

Exposure time: 0.0167 seconds

That would be 1/60, not 1/17. Or did I screw up somehow?
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Old Feb 24, 2006, 2:33 PM   #25
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I don't think that could be right.

The Canon was getting 1/9 second at f/3.5, and it's Auto ISO should be going to the equivalent of around ISO 160 oe ISO 200 I would think with shutter speeds that slow (since it's ISO speed range is ISO 50 through 400).

That's about what I'd expect at an EV of 6 from one at f/3.5, boosting the ISO speed up close to 200 (or perhaps 160, depending on how they decided to implement Auto ISO). Perhaps it's in the manual, or perhaps it's really lower. I could be wrong.

Anyway, exposing the way an entry level Canon tends to (well exposed versus underexposed in most cases), that sounds about right in typical indoor lighting without much daylight coming in (EV of around 6). In my small office right now, with two 100 watt bulbs overhead above me, and with a some ambient light coming in through a window with blinds and no drapes, I'm metering 1/8 second at f/3.5 and ISO 200.

If light was at an EV of 6, you'd be at 1/9 second at f/3.4 and ISO 160, and the Canon was getting 1/9 second at f/3.5 (probably because the effective ISO in Auto ISO was a tad higher is what I would think it would do).

At a f/2.8 where the Olympus was shooting at, you'd meter at 1/15 second for ISO 200 at the same lighting (EV of 6). You'll also have some minor exposure variances between models. 1/3 stop or so is typical.

So, I think it's more likely the way it's being interpreted by the EXIF reader code (they shouldn't be that far off in exposure, even if the Canon was at ISO 100).

I checked our review samples from an Olympus E-100RS with two different EXIF readers, and I see a more typical EXIF stamp for shutter speeds (1/650 second, etc. versus .xxxxx seconds).

So, I'm wondering how the EXIF is being read and if it's not interpreting the manufacturer correctly due to byte offsets in the EXIF and where it's being put at by Olympus for this older model.

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