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Old Mar 1, 2006, 12:07 AM   #1
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This was posted in another forum and I was just wondering why Sony has so few users on the R1 anyone wanting that advanced type of camera goes with a DSLR.

I'm still at my witts end on figuring out what I want for a camera.

CANON

EOS 5D - 629 users

20D - 7,521 users

Rebel XT - 3,545 users

PENTAX

ISD and ISD-DS - 760 users

NIKON

D50 - 658 users

D70 - 864 usrs

OLYMPUS

E500 - 127 users

E300 - 352 users

SONY

R1 - 68 users

KONICA MINOLTA

KM 5D - 166 users

KM 7D - 485 users

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Old Mar 1, 2006, 1:10 AM   #2
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In the long run DSLRs have no chance of survival. An OVF with mirrors and prisms is simply extremely expensive stone age technology. However, cameras with large sensors and interchangable lenses will prevail. The Sony R1 is just the predesessor of this new kind of camera. It has a large sensor, EVF and live view LCD but not yet interchangable lenses. Lense investment in the current DSLR systems seems to be pretty safe, because all will switch to this new kind of cameras. Only at the very high end OVFs have a chance of survival. On the other hand, cameras with interchangable lense and without OVF will become very affordable - much cheaper than current DSLRs.
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Old Mar 1, 2006, 2:19 AM   #3
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Those numbers are not very accurate.

With that said, I still think Canon dropped the ball on the Rebel XT's body. Had they made the body the same size as D50 or at least, the original DigRebel, there wouldn't be a market for the D50 and D70s (ok I'm exaggerating). That would have been the silver-bullet... although I'll still get the black Rebel XT, the silver one just looks weird.

That's a nice theory about the EVF with interchangable lens. But I have to admit, there is something about looking at that OVF and composing a shot that gives me a more serene experience. It's kinda like driving on an endless highway by yourself, with no other cars in sight... Except for Trooper Johnson hiding at the bottom of the hill with his radar gun catching you going 90mph on a 50mph Oregon highway. (But that's a different story.)

Oh there's that battery issue. Dig SLRs with LCD off can take a thousand shot before recharge. I'd like to see a 2.5 inch EVF camera do that. The battery is a big issue for me. When I camp/hike at National Parks, I often find myself waiting outside NP bathrooms every night while my batteries are charging inside :G Its funny how I go to NPs to experience nature, yet I have to charge my camera, MP3 player and laptop batteries in NP bathrooms... Only in America!

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Old Mar 1, 2006, 3:30 AM   #4
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You can't expect to make a thousand shots with one battery if you are forced to use an EVF or the LCD, that is impossible. You can be very glad if you can make 200 shots without recharging. Currently the OVF is the main barrier for many companies to enter the extremely profitable DSLR market. Once there is a possibility to avoid the OVF you will see more companies entering this market and that will ultimately drive down prices considerably and you will simply be no more competitive with an expensive OVF.
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Old Mar 1, 2006, 7:27 AM   #5
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The other issue with EVF cameras is the screen blanking during burst mode...not very suitable for action shots.
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Old Mar 1, 2006, 3:15 PM   #6
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kassandro wrote:
Quote:
In the long run DSLRs have no chance of survival. An OVF with mirrors and prisms is simply extremely expensive . However, cameras with large sensors and interchangable lenses will prevail. The Sony R1 is just the predesessor of this new kind of camera. It has a large sensor, EVF and live view LCD but not yet interchangable lenses. Lense investment in the current DSLR systems seems to be pretty safe, because all will switch to this new kind of cameras. Only at the very high end OVFs have a chance of survival. On the other hand, cameras with interchangable lense and without OVF will become very affordable - much cheaper than current DSLRs.
EVF's will not replace OVF's until they are as good as them. Therenot bad, but there nowhere near the quailityof the DSLR's OVF. Even the EVF in the R1 is not as nice as the one in DSLR's like the Rebel XT. The EVF's picture is not as real looking as the OVF's, and the frame rate can cause the image to jump. There is still many things that will need to be perfected until the pentiprism/pentimirror systems used in DSLR'sbecomes "stone age technology".


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Old Mar 1, 2006, 3:15 PM   #7
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kassandro wrote:
Quote:
In the long run DSLRs have no chance of survival. An OVF with mirrors and prisms is simply extremely expensive . However, cameras with large sensors and interchangable lenses will prevail. The Sony R1 is just the predesessor of this new kind of camera. It has a large sensor, EVF and live view LCD but not yet interchangable lenses. Lense investment in the current DSLR systems seems to be pretty safe, because all will switch to this new kind of cameras. Only at the very high end OVFs have a chance of survival. On the other hand, cameras with interchangable lense and without OVF will become very affordable - much cheaper than current DSLRs.
EVF's will not replace OVF's until they are as good as them. Therenot bad, but there nowhere near the quailityof the DSLR's OVF. Even the EVF in the R1 is not as nice as the one in DSLR's like the Rebel XT. The EVF's picture is not as real looking as the OVF's, and the frame rate can cause the image to jump.

There is still many things that will need to be perfected until the pentiprism/pentimirror systems used in DSLR'sbecomes "stone age technology".


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Old Mar 1, 2006, 4:01 PM   #8
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Homer J. wrote:
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EVF's will not replace OVF's until they are as good as them. There¬*not bad, but there nowhere near the quaility¬*of the DSLR's OVF. Even the EVF in the R1 is not as nice as the one in DSLR's like the Rebel XT.
Now is that wonder because common people are satisfied to crap if it's just greased with big enough amount of BS department's excrements...

TWO years old (Konica)Minolta A2 has 922 000 pixel EVF which is 4x resolution compared to any other EVF/LCD on digital cameras, including current much newer models.
Few weeks ago I did little test and zoomed to object ~2m (6ft) away, seeing was camera focused to object or background ~30cm (12") farther was relatively easy without using any magnification. (&in half res mode it would have 60fps frefresh rate)

You can bet that if it would have been in camera of maker with big BS budget high res EVF would be now mandatory feature of every "advanced" digicam.
So it all depends when people tell BS departments to shut up with their media sexy big size but small resolution LCDs+ other totally useless/uselessly implemented crap and start demanding really usefull features...

Around release of dumbed/stripped down KM A200 there was talk in Dpreview forum that maker of A2's EVF would have had capability to make XGA resolution (1024x768 ) mini LCDs in near future. So at least now after this time getting rid of 70+ years design made for entirely other "sensor technology" would be more question of will than technology.

PS. No need to double click send button. Wait at least half minute before pressing again. (&use Ctrl+C to copy answer text if you're worried about it getting lost to "bit heaven")
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