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Old Apr 5, 2006, 8:43 PM   #1
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I am considering the purchase of a Canon PowerShot Pro 1 -

In terms of image quality and build quality, how does it compare to other cameras like the Canon PowerShot G6, Nikon Coolpix 8700, or even the Nikon D50 ?

Is there a lot of noise issues ? Without IS, I am guessing that it will have significant blur issues as well ?


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Old Apr 5, 2006, 8:57 PM   #2
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Unfortunately, the Canon Pro-1 has never enjoyed great acceptance due to itsnoise and its extreme slowness. It has a great lens, a Canon L lens, and it does quite well at ISO 50 with its images.

However, the Nikon D-50, for example, which is almost two years newer, can run circles around the Pro-1 in an category you care to compare.

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Old Apr 6, 2006, 12:37 AM   #3
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What about the Nikon Coolpix 8800, or 8700 ?


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Old Apr 6, 2006, 12:44 AM   #4
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I just sold my Nikon 8700. The 8700 along with the 8800 are fine cameras but very slow to focus, slow to store your image, and slow to become ready for the next shot. That was why I purchased the Nikon D-50. Just check the professional reviews.

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Old Apr 6, 2006, 3:04 AM   #5
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The Powershot Pro 1, the CP8700, CP8800, CP8400, KM A2, KM A200 all share the same old Sony 8 MP 2/3" sensor. Relativ to its size this sensor is fairly poor. On the other hand all the above cameras have excellent lenses and the built quality of these cameras is excellent (magnesium alloy). The KM A200 has a plastic body, though. I bought the A200 because I needed a replacement for my Powershot S1 and because it was very cheap (353€). The Powershot Pro 1 may have a slightly better lense, but unlike the A200 it has neither an image stabiliser nor a good movie mode. An image stabiliser seemed to be necessary for me to fully utilise the 28-200mm zoom range. Also the A200 has 4 custom modes, which is particularily useful for me.
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Old Apr 6, 2006, 4:56 AM   #6
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ELDDJOC wrote:
Quote:
Without IS, I am guessing that it will have significant blur issues as well ?
Well, tele end is 200mm which means without IS longest shake free shutter time in that end zoom is 1/200s.
With stabilization 1/50s is very easy and 1/30s well possible which helps really much with stationary targets in less-bright lightning.
Also stabilization helps much to jerkyness of video taken with longer focal lengths.



mtclimber wrote:
Quote:
However, the Nikon D-50, for example, which is almost two years newer, can run circles around the Pro-1 in an category you care to compare.
Now isn't faster speed always expected from newer camera and especially comparing to DSLR's speed is like comparing Lada to F1 car.

Runs around until you remember "D"SLRs still drag all limitations of 70+something old design made for entirely other "sensor format" and are pure still cameras.



kassandro wrote:
Quote:
The Powershot Pro 1 may have a slightly better lense, but unlike the A200 it has neither an image stabiliser nor a good movie mode.
You forgot button zoom. Also Canon's lack of IS is really weird when cameras against which it was supposed to compete, Minolta A1 and KM A2 have it. (CP8700&8800 go more to button zoomed unwide angle ultrazooms class and CP8400 is similar to Canon's G-models)
My guess is it has those limitations compared to direct competition because Canon didn't want it to compete with their cash cows.



Considering about that noise sensor definitely isn't good but funny how these same people aren't crucifying just announced literally claimed to be "high sensitivity" capable high MP/very tiny sensor cameras while those give about this: (except Fujis)
http://www.quesabesde.com/camdig/not..._H2_ISO400.jpg
That's already such heavily processed that there isn't much any chances for getting better results in post processing unless you "wash away" also rest of the details. (actually high ISOs of Fujis have slight watercolor look)

For comparison here's quickly post processed Steve's KM A2 review's ISO400 and ISO800 noise test shot: (self extracting RAR-archive)
http://rapidshare.de/files/14515406/...essed.exe.html


For low light moving targets DSLRs are really superior to any non-SLR digicam but with stationary targets tripod has been used always...

Taken around 1 or 2 am (that's moon, not sun), don't remember exactly time but bypassing average incamera processing with RAW would have been way better choise than taking this in JPEG:

Here's what it looked to eye at that time, and meaning general light level, not just those noctilucent clouds:
(for which I exposed shot, meaning nearly 1EV underexposure using exposure compensation)

(click for bigger pics)



Also here's some other shots taken in low light.
http://forums.dpreview.com/forums/re...ssage=16708739
http://forums.dpreview.com/forums/re...ssage=17918433

So while noise levels aren't something which could be said as good they're definitely not worser than other non-DSLRs... current cameras just hide noise more effectively with incamera processing.
(especially Fuji does it well)
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Old Apr 6, 2006, 7:45 AM   #7
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Sigh .....

It is so difficult to choose a suitable camera for the serious amateur ....

I have narrowed it down to the Canon PowerShot G6, or the Canon PowerShot S3 IS - The Pro 1 according to many, was a failure in Canon's design ....

I would love to have the S3's IS, but apparently the G6 offers image quality and so much more .....


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Old Apr 6, 2006, 11:16 AM   #8
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I own a Canon G-6 and it is a great camera. However, my one qualm is that it is a bit slower with focus, due to having the original digic chip rather than the newer digic II chip.

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Old Apr 6, 2006, 3:48 PM   #9
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ELDDJOC wrote:
Quote:
I have narrowed it down to the Canon PowerShot G6, or the Canon PowerShot S3 IS - The Pro 1 according to many, was a failure in Canon's design ....

I would love to have the S3's IS, but apparently the G6 offers image quality and so much more ...
Now did you expect to find good serious amateur camera from maker whose aim is kicking users wanting more control than shutter button to "D"SLR?
(even that G-serie was terminated)


But first what would you photograph, is it mostly wild animals/birds or is it general photography, landscapes, architecture?
Also if it includes sport that has its own kind requirements.

Type of photography is especially important because 12x "zoom" of S3 IS has actually worser wide angle than just 4x zoom G6 which itself doesn't have good wide angle! That should tell how zoom numbers are pure hype.

Also S3 (like big bunch of recently released cameras) very propably use same sensor as Sony H2 which is rally bad:
http://www.quesabesde.com/camdig/not..._H2_ISO400.jpg (extremely heavy processing but still lot of noise)


So if you want longer than "digicompact standard" tele with good wide angle 28-200mm zoom cameras using 8MP 2/3" sensor would be some of the best choises. But Canon Pro 1 definitely isn't best of them. It's more feature limited than its inspirers, like lack of stabilization, which KM A200 has.
Then other option would be 28-300mm zoom Fuji S9000/9500 which lacks stabilization, but has less noise on higher ISOs which would work better for sport/moving target but isn't enough to win stabilization with stationary targets.


But if what you want is best possible controls/most features A200 is in fact basically mostly downgraded and "point&shoothesized" cheaper version of A2 so unless Powershot G-style flip/twist LCD (couldn't care less about LCDs when A2 has 922 000 pixel EVF) and full VGA video (640x480, 544 x 408 in A2, for comparison practical resolution of VHS is around 320x240) aren't important two years old A2 is still most feature rich and most control rich non-DSLR there is... and propably will keep that position for long time because of this "DSLR to every hand"-mania of makers.
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Old Apr 6, 2006, 6:07 PM   #10
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The problem is that Konica Minolta products are now difficult to find in Australia, and the fact that they have left the market does not give me a whole deal of confidence, even if Sony was taking over its warranties.

The Samsung Pro 815 looks good, but I have very little faith in Korean products , due to prior bad experiences.

Basically, I want a camera that :

1. Image Stabilised

2. Superb Image Quality

3. Is a Digital Camera, not DSLR

4. Very low noise

5. Fast in shot taking

6. Long Zoom (More than 6X)

7. 2.0 LCD or bigger

8. Good in both indoor and outdoor settings

9. 6MP +


I have read through many, many reviews, and the closest I got was the Canon PowerShot G6, S3 IS, Sony DSC-F717, Panasonic Lumix FZ7 and FZ30.

I just bought a second hand Sony F717, and it died due to the CCD issue.

The FZ7 seems to fit just about all of the above criteria, but Panasonic also happens to be the King of Noise (My FX9 has severe noise issues)


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