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Old Apr 9, 2006, 7:56 PM   #1
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First, I would like to say that I really appreciate the time and effort that goes into this web site and forums. As a webmaster, I understand the work that goes into maintaining such an adventure.

OK. On to business.

I have never owned a digital camera, and so I have been researching on the web and visiting retail sites to procure one. My main reason for wanting one is for family events, vacations, etc. I am not in any way shape or form a photographer with any skill.

I had made a decision to go with a Canon A series because of the quality of the images and their prices. However, upon my discovery of the "dreaded E18" error, I have abandoned the Canon name. I would like to point out that I realize that there are probably thousands of these cameras that will work for years to come without getting this error, but I am not willing to gamble.

The Panasonic models of FX9, FZ7, and LZ3 are worthy cameras as well, but the Fuji F10 seems to stand out in its quality of images, although it is eight months in age.

Questions:
  • Are there just as good of cameras on the brink of being exposed (no pun intended) that would be worth waiting for? I realize that one could wait forever in wanting to secure the "perfect" camera, and I have given myself the date of 4/17 to make a decision.[/*]
  • I have read elsewhere on this forum that the xD cards are horribly slow, but I'm not sure how that affects the performance of the camera. Is this in transferring the images to the PC or in saving them after shooting?[/*]
  • I know that the F30 is coming out next month, but will it's CCD be equivalent or larger than the F10?
    [/*]
Thanks for any advice that you can give to me.

John
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Old Apr 9, 2006, 9:38 PM   #2
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Well, John-

There is a lot of material in your post to deal with rather directly. The F-30 is due out in May. Every suppusition, says that Fuji is not going to risk their reputation, It is very logical indeed, to suppose that the Fuji F-30 will carry on the tradition of the Fuji F-10 and F-11 that have gone before it. However, that is NOT an absolute certainity.

Please keep in mind that it was the Panasonic Cameras that pioneered the IS feature. There was a good reason for that. It stablilized their long zoom cameras, and it was to become their key point in their advertizing. However, that did not fix the fact that Panasonic Cameras are also famous for their very visible noise artefacts when used at an ISO setting of 200 or above. Their noise has sort of a signature to it. In its heaviest form, it is visible as a motled or speckled overlay on their images.

On the other hand, Fuji does not have the IS feature. Instead they have pioneered the use of high ISO settings (the F-10's max ISO is 1600, and the F-30's max ISO will be 3200) with very sophisticated imagers of 6mp+ that show little or no noiseartefacts. That seems, IMHO, to be the better approach.

Naturally each camera brand has their own legion of supporters. So what more can I do, but tell you that you will have to make your own decision. Think of it this way please. If your normal shooting mode includes agood dealof low light level shooting, then, IMHO the Fuji cameras are your best choice.

If your normal modus operandi is lots of travel or holiday photos with almost all of them taken in normal daylight conditions, then the Panasonic Cameras will work well for you as long as you keep the ISO settings to their lowest settings.

MT


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Old Apr 9, 2006, 10:24 PM   #3
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Okay, the F10 is in my opinion the best compact available to date. Unless you need MPEG4, big zoom, or full manual control, it is very good. The F30 will hopefull have not only ISO3200, but better capabilities at lower ISOs. Additionally, I am hopping, and betting Fuji will make overall optimizations to the F30 version, and it will also have higher screen resolution in addition to shutter and aperture prority. If you don't mind waiting a month or two, then wait to see if the F30 is any good. Otherwise, I would get the F10. From your discription it seems you want purely point and shoot, but with good images, and the F10 can do that. The only real feature you may want to consider learning to adjust manually is the ISO.
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Old Apr 9, 2006, 11:26 PM   #4
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I wouldn't overestimate Canon's E18 error. All cameras with a retracting lense may suffer from this problem. At Nikon this problem is called "system error" and at Casio it is called "lense error". I had two Canon cameras (and will have more in the future), a Powershot A70 and a Powershot S1IS, and I never had any problems with these cameras although the A70 is a very well known E18 camera. You simply have to be diligent with your camera, especially as far as dust is concerned. Never put your camera unprotected in your pocket. Before you turn off your camera, remove dust on those plastic parts of the lense, which retract. This can be done quickly with your hands.
I personally dislike the F10 because it has no viewfinder and it is better to use the viewfinder instead of the LCD, because pressing your head against the camera provides additional stability to the camera and hence reduces shake. Also - like many older people - I would have to use my reading glasses or keep the display at quite some distance to see it clearly. If you want a Fuji you should take the E900 which is better in many ways. There is one reason to reject Fuji altogether. Fuji uses proprietary memory cards, the XD cards. They are more expensive than the SD cards used by most manufacturers and if you want to buy a new camera, you have to buy again a Fuji or an Olympus if you want to continue to use your memory cards. Thus these manufacturers want to restrict your choice and consumers should fight against such companies by not buying their products. Thus don't buy cameras from Fuji, Olympus or Sony. I would recommend the the very affordable Casio Z120 as an entry camera. If there is sufficient light, its image quality is clearly superior over the F10 and it has a better movie mode. It also uses generic SD cards and cheap NiMH batteries.
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Old Apr 9, 2006, 11:53 PM   #5
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kassandro-

You are a very good friend indeed, but this time I have to disagree with you. The Fuji F-10 does not have an optical viewfinder nor does it use SD chips/cards, but the Fuji F-10 has lead the way in terms of low lightclevel shooting at high ISO numbers.

Oh, by the way the Fuji E-900 also uses XD chips/cards.

The botom line in this diccussion is this: though we might find various faults with the Fuji F-10, it has been on the leading edge of technology in its field. Like carskick, I have every reason to expect that the Fuji F-30, due to be released in May, will do exactly what the F-10 did. The F-30 will be another ground breaker, bringing DSLR ISO speeds to the point and shoot category.

Like it or not, the F-10 is a camera to be reckoned with, and I believe that the F-30 willgive usmore of the same.

MT
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Old Apr 10, 2006, 3:43 AM   #6
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Its this very reason I didn't give the Fuji a look at, it is a very good point he makes though.
kassandro wrote:
Quote:
I personally dislike the F10 because it has no viewfinder and it is better to use the viewfinder instead of the LCD, because pressing your head against the camera provides additional stability to the camera and hence reduces shake.
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Old Apr 10, 2006, 6:29 AM   #7
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I would like the F10 to have a viewfinder as well, but it's getting harder to find quality cameras that have one. However, the main concern that I have for whichever camera I buy is that the quality of the pictures be superb and not cost more than $350.

I again realize that there are going to be many cameras out there that won't have the E18-type error. I also realize that Canon has at least two class-action lawsuits going against it for this error, and I have heard none from other manufacturers. If there are, then that would be good information to have. Maybe I'm being paranoid.

The xD cards are a bit of a mystery to me. Are they bad enough to prevent me from buying a Fuji? No one seems to have addressed this here except Cassandro speaking to the proprietary side of the argument. While this is a good point I would like to stress that I am looking for a camera that can take exceptionally good pictures. I have looked at the Casio camera you mentioned, but the quality falls short of the F10. (At least what I can tell on-line from reviews like Steve's, dcresource, etc.)

I played with the FZ7 this weekend as well and I like the construction of it. The 12X zoom is certainly something to attract me, too, but the EVF was very blurry. I couldn't tell if this was because someone had put their thumb on the glass or if it was just going to be that way by design. The picture quality of this camera seems to rival the F10.
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Old Apr 10, 2006, 7:03 AM   #8
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Yes I took the lens jamming into consideration , lets face it it could happen with any camera... you can't just 'put them' in your pocket like a cigarette lighter for example, would imagine that many would do without giving due consideration to dust etc.

At first I was looking at the Casio Z120 then the A610, then the Sony W50 and now the Canon A540.... yes I know there are problems with E18 error but didn't know about the law suites.... "jeepers you've got me thinking now", but surely they must have sold millions of em..?

Photo quality, reliability, extras and then looks is my priority.

Davy


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Old Apr 10, 2006, 8:50 AM   #9
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Davy,

Just as kassandro mentioned, together we have owned many Canon cameras and neither one of us has ever seen the dreaded E-18 error. So the percentage affected must indeed be very small.

MT
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Old Apr 10, 2006, 9:59 AM   #10
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Because the opening post in this thread, was about the Fuji F-10, perhaps we should get back to that topic. The new Fuji V-10, which some see as the natural replacement to the F-10, is certainly not a replacement. The V-10is now available, and while it has an amazing 3.0 inch LCD screen and is capable of playing 4 different video games, the imager is NOT the same as the imager used in the F-10 and it do not really have great high ISO shooting qualities. The ISO 800 and 1600 settings show a lot of noise. Here is a review of the V-10:

http://www.dcresource.com/reviews/fu...ew/index.shtml

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