Go Back   Steve's Digicams Forums > Digicam Help > What Camera Should I Buy?

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old Apr 21, 2006, 8:27 AM   #11
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Posts: 1,093
Default

Magikhat wrote:
Quote:
The FZ20 lens is brighter, but is it that much of a difference?
Yes. In a photo that you can take at ISO 100 on the FZ20, you would have to go to ISO 200 for the same shutter setting when its lens goes up to f/3.7 (The exact same setting and exposure would be f/4, but that is within the margin of error for most exposure settings.) The FZ30 is a very good camera, but this one aspect is a very unfortunate step backward from what was wonderful in the FZ20.


tclune is offline   Reply With Quote
Old Apr 21, 2006, 8:50 AM   #12
Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Posts: 34
Default

Thanks, That makes it like 500 times harder to decide now

Im not too technical on ISO settings, or camera settings in general

I just want the best I can have

they are both nice lenses, but the FZ20 takes better pictures?

is that is what it is coming down to

decisions, decisions =[

Do you have to jump through a lot of hoops to get a great shot with the fz30

or is it the same with the fz20
Magikhat is offline   Reply With Quote
Old Apr 21, 2006, 9:05 AM   #13
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Posts: 1,093
Default

Magikhat wrote:
Quote:
Do you have to jump through a lot of hoops to get a great shot with the fz30

or is it the same with the fz20
I may just be a slow learner, but I find that it takes me a few months and hundreds of pictures to feel confident that I know how to work with a new camera. I don't think that either camera is massively easier that way. But, to the extent that one has an advantage on this, it would have to go to the FZ30. The ergonomics are a realimprovement. For example, it is a lot easier to frame a shot using the manual zoom ring on the FZ30 than the electronic button on the FZ20.
tclune is offline   Reply With Quote
Old Apr 21, 2006, 9:08 AM   #14
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: Indian Rocks Beach, FL
Posts: 4,036
Default

Quote:
How does the FZ30 and A200 lens compare quality wise? not just tele/wide?
The FZ30 has a sharper lens. Leica is making excellent lenses for Panasonic. I do agree that if you don't want to stitch, wide angle adds a lot of versatility.



Quote:
Sorry How is the lens better in the FZ20 than the FZ30
With over 400mm equivalent, almost a full f-stop difference is significant. I am often pushing the edges of handheld ability at f2.8 using burst mode to try to hit a moment of null hand movement. Losing an f-stop of speed would require a tripod unless your sharpness standards weren't that high.

Quote:
I do want a nice lens but I want gadgets too
The FZ30 has more and better gadgets if you intend using them. There are many FZ30 owners who don't regularly use raw and throw away one of the big advantages of the camera. If you don't intend taking advantage of the hot shoe the smaller FZ 5 or 7 might be a better choice. I don't agree, but I have seen many posts by people who prefer electric zoom. I think manual zoom is a big advantage of the FZ30.

But the FZ30 is larger with a slower lens than the FZ20. Unless you intend to crop a lot or make 16 X 20 prints, the extra Mp just increases your noise problems. I would consider the manual zoom worth the price difference if I didn't have to give up lens speed. And the control setup is a little better on the FZ30, but it seems you still have to dig into menus to do simple things like switch to spot metering or do an EV shift to satisfy the histogram. Even most pocket cameras let you do those things without menus. And with either one you have to rig an optical sight of some sort to take pictures in low light with a flash attachment.

Noise is often over-hyped. You often don't see it with small prints or in a normal screen display, and you can eliminate quite a bit without losing much sharpness with good software for the occasional time you want a larger print or extreme crop.

If you intend taking movies with the camera the FZ30 is a no-brainer. The Tiny movies aren't worth the trouble of taking on the FZ20 IMO. And you can't use the optical zoom while filming.


slipe is offline   Reply With Quote
Old Apr 21, 2006, 9:15 AM   #15
Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Posts: 34
Default

That comparsion is great and helped
thanks

Yeah the manaul zoom is what is very attractive about the camera
but I understand what you are saying

It has manual zoom but it has more noise, but that noise
will probably not be a huge factor

FZ20 doesnt have raw images.. can you explain what they are and why I need them



Also

I do not understand what you mean .. like waht you said below.. the difference in fstops.. sorry im lost

With over 400mm equivalent, almost a full f-stop difference is significant. I am often pushing the edges of handheld ability at f2.8 using burst mode to try to hit a moment of null hand movement. Losing an f-stop of speed would require a tripod unless your sharpness standards weren't that high.


I was just reading reviews on the FZ30.. and some people say they own both FZ20 and FZ30 and some ppl say FZ30 has way better, more clear pictures

and then other say things like this:
I own the fz20 and the fz30. The obvious changes are present, but the image quality is ten times better even at 5mp.

*sigh.. this is tough choice*


Thanks- daniel
Magikhat is offline   Reply With Quote
Old Apr 21, 2006, 2:47 PM   #16
E.T
Senior Member
 
E.T's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2003
Posts: 921
Default

RAW is literally raw data from sensor, very high pixel density cameras tend to have smaller dynamic range meaning if there's big lightning differences in frame highlights would be easily overexposed while shadows would stay dark, good example for that kind situation would be landscape with bright sky and ground with shadow areas.
JPEG file format increases this problem because it has only 256 brightness values per pixel while in RAW you often get at least 4096 brightness values, also worse internal processing can further increase this problem by increasing contrast.
Good news is that those Panas doesn't overprocess contrast, because RAW conversion would be something you propably wouln't want to do.
Also when it comes to resolving most details from sensor/lens combination those Panasonics have very good internal processing.



As for how focal lengths relate to each others... Small millimeter difference in wide angle can cause more than noticeable difference in field of view while in tele end similar millimeter difference wouldn't be noticeable at all. (would be hard even with "pixel peeping")

As examples for differences in wide angle here's shot taken at 28mm + 0.8x wide converter giving effective ~22.5mm focal length. (narrowest acceptable for close thunderstorms)

28mm field of view is somewhat over 1/6th narrower in both horizontal and vertical direction.
Now for getting wide angle FOV (~36mm) of those Panasonics crop away 1/3rd from height and width.

To give some reference for what range 28-200mm covers here's good pair of photos:
http://www.trustedreview.com/article...ge=4618&head=0
That first photo also demonstrates well what very high pixel density sensor combined to overprocessed contrast can cause easily.

I don't have examples for tele end but major thing is that "magnification" doubles when focal length is doubled, which means that compared to 200mm tele 400mm tele zooms into area whose sides are half legth of 200mm shots.
So if we assume that previous shot would be taken at 200mm you would get field of fiew of 400mm by cropping half from both height and width.


Considering noise just yesterday I saw some photos taken by stormchaser friend, he said film had possibly gotten too old and it had been slighly more sensitive film than what is used normally in fil mcameras... resulting graininess was visible in 6x4 paperphotos! Now I think that about every digicam (except El Cheapo toys) can produce good enough results at highest ISO/sensitivity (excect new high sensitivity mode of some Panas which have very low resolution) so that printing them in that size produces completely sharp noise free pics.

Actually 2/3" 8MP sensor used in A2 and A200 could do good quality ISO800 prints in bigger than standard paperphoto size after cleaning noise little with noise removing software. (internal noise removing is very light and ineffective)
Here's quickly cleaned ISO400 and 800 noise test shots from Steve's review. (self-extracting RAR archive)
http://rapidshare.de/files/14515406/...essed.exe.html

Here's similar for A200 which has better internal processing than A2:
http://www.keepmyfile.com/download/4769a0693606



slipe wrote:
Quote:
Quote:
How does the FZ30 and A200 lens compare quality wise? not just tele/wide?
The FZ30 has a sharper lens.
In A200 RAW would actually give sharper details than incamera processed JPEGs. (not that difference would matter in ordinary sized prints)

Quote:
And the control setup is a little better on the FZ30, but it seems you still have to dig into menus to do simple things like switch to spot metering or do an EV shift to satisfy the histogram. Even most pocket cameras let you do those things without menus.
Actually those require first pushing soem button and then doing button tapping/morse coding with 4 way controller... but even that would be faster.
(I prefer having exposure compensation directly in dial like KM A1 and A2)



So every camera is compromise... unfortunately we can't have that perfect/universally best camera.
E.T is offline   Reply With Quote
Old Apr 21, 2006, 8:14 PM   #17
Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Posts: 34
Default

I went to circuit city today to ya know.. try out the FZ30
and they dont even have it .. and they are hoping to get it in
in the future.. hasnt it been out for at least 4+ months now..
strange.. then i went to my local camera shop and they didnt have it either

Circuitcity.com had it.. but not in the store.. kinda lame

After all the information I have decided to go with the FZ30

I know it will be a great camera and I
thank you all for your help


-Daniel

Magikhat is offline   Reply With Quote
Old Apr 21, 2006, 9:40 PM   #18
Senior Member
 
meanstreak's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Posts: 1,234
Default

Magikhat wrote:
Quote:
I went to circuit city today to ya know.. try out the FZ30
and they dont even have it .. and they are hoping to get it in
in the future.. hasnt it been out for at least 4+ months now..
strange.. then i went to my local camera shop and they didnt have it either

Circuitcity.com had it.. but not in the store.. kinda lame

After all the information I have decided to go with the FZ30

I know it will be a great camera and I
thank you all for your help


-Daniel

I don't think you will regret it... I purchased the FZ30 at the beginning of April and have never looked back on whether or not I made the right choice. I happened to compare it in size to the FZ20 after I had purchased it and the FZ20 just didn't feel as good in my hands. The FZ30 just felt more comfortable and I have small hands. Felt like my old MInolta SLR. I'm not knocking the FZ20 in any way and I know it takes great shots, but I'm glad I went with the FZ30. I love the manual zoom and the tilt LCD. I seem to find myself using the EVF more for taking normal pictures. I use the LCD when the EVF is not practicle and for reviewing shots and setting features. The tilt definitly allows you to take the shots you would normally miss or struggle with down low or above the crowd.

As for Circuit City, they seem to carrymerchandise on their site that you can't find in the store and vice-versa. Luckily I work in New York City near stores that carry almost every model imaginable. I purchased mine from Beach Camera/Buydig for 494 shipped. Be careful of some of the online deals especially if they are much lower. When I was ready to purchase, 6th Ave eletronics had it for about 10 dollars less, but didn't actually have it in stock when I called them despite the misleading instock 2-3 day shipping claim on their site. They also did not have as good a rating as Beach/Buydig.
meanstreak is offline   Reply With Quote
Old Apr 21, 2006, 9:53 PM   #19
Senior Member
 
meanstreak's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Posts: 1,234
Default

Magikhat wrote:
Quote:
I know it will be a great camera and I
thank you all for your help


Here'sone of the first shots I took with it.

Try this linkto see a bigger version of it

http://images16.fotki.com/v287/fileJ...dwaterfall.jpg


Attached Images
 
meanstreak is offline   Reply With Quote
Old Apr 21, 2006, 10:02 PM   #20
Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Posts: 34
Default

Yes I was looking to buy mine from Buydig also

They also have some +1 +2 +4 filters for 49.99
i dont know if they are any good


How was the shipping from buydig? do they ship from newJersey?
I live in PA so if they do, that would be a quick delivery

are you satisfied with buydig?

My parents and my fiance say I am crazy for spending this much money
on a camera.. but this camera just feel right I think its worth it

Thanks- Daniel
Magikhat is offline   Reply With Quote
 
Reply


Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 12:28 PM.