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Old Apr 26, 2006, 7:09 AM   #11
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Yes, I agree.

Sometimes I take pictures using 35mm film with my Nikon FM2. And really like it just because of noise. It gives the feeling of natural picture. But the only problem is the price of those pics. Very high price for all.
I think, film is for professionals, who can predict the result without monitoring, so I'd like using dSLR so far.
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Old Apr 27, 2006, 11:43 AM   #12
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Sorry for taking so long to get back... Thanks everyone for their replies and advice not that it is making my decision any easier. :? it seems I am down to the Nikon D50 or the Canon 20D or 30D. I know it is a huge difference in costs.

That is a good idea photojazz to rent. I may have to look into that.

Does anyone have any other thoughts or reviewson the Tamron 18-200mmlens? The seagull photo by mtclimber doesn't seem as sharp as I would think it should be. Or would want my photos to be.

ellover009, thanks for the info. I will call the indianna store and see what I can find out from them.
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Remember you are buying into the equipment, take a look at the prices of the lenses and the accessories it all adds up to your needs and how much you are willing to spend. The 350xt , hand-grip and a nice sigma lens with 18-200 would be nice, but I like the30D a lot, feels nice, but not sure if my wallet can justify almost 2x cost for and magnesium alloy body, a 2.5in lcd, and ISO 3200 (most likely not used much).
I do need to do a bit more research on lens I think. I do agree with you and I do like the 30D a lot too. The feel etc. But I am in the same boat with trying to justify the 2x cost. what to do... what to do.... Especially afterperipatetic's thoughts on the bodies lasting a while. I tend to agree.Does anyone else have any thoughts on this subject?

Thanks guys.
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Old Apr 27, 2006, 12:08 PM   #13
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Dandcp,

I think you're down to the 2 cameras that are the best near your price point:

30d/20d and D50. Overall picture quality, the Canon 20d, 350d and Nikon d50 and d70 will produce the same quality photos. The difference between 6mp and 8 is trivial and I wouldn't base your decision on which body to buy based on that. Base it on 2 things:

1. Which camera has the features that your photographic style requires

2. which body is ergonomically appealing to you

As a sports shooter, the features of the 20D were what made that my camera of choice - ISO 3200, low noise performance, burst rate, etc. - the 20d is still tops in the non-pro category for sports shooting (The Nikon d200 has the feature set but not the low noise performance). For people doing a lot of flash work - I think Nikon still has better flash management than Canon. But, if you aren't going to do the low-light, high ISO work and don't need the burst rate and buffer handling the Canon 20d/30d offers then I don't think the 20d/30d offers a big enough picture quality difference over the Nikon to justify the price difference.

As for buying great glass - that's a true statement, but a $1300 budget won't allow you to do that. You're going to have to compromise - either buy a single quality lens with shorter reach or buy a lens with wide zoom range (which is going to have poorer quality than a smaller zoom range) or buy 2 cheap lenses. I wouldn't set your expectations too high for any lens covering the 18-200 range. My advice on lenses - buy a single quality lens that meets 75% of your needs and add a second lens when you have more money. Usually a mid-range zoom - something like a 24-70 (Sigma makes a nice one) or the Canon 28-135 or Canon 17-85 IS are good starting points. None of them are professional quality lenses so don't expect to match what you see with a $1300 lens but these types of lenses will almost always outperform a 24-200 or 18-200 type of lens.

So, first decide if you need to step up from the Nikon D50 to the features the 20D/30d provides (remember the 2 extra mp really isn't a big deal but some of the other features might be). Be honest about your choice: I bought the 20d because the features were important a friend of mine went with the D50 because he didn't need the extra features - both of us are happy.

That's my 2 cents.
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Old Apr 27, 2006, 1:55 PM   #14
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The D50 has mirror lockup but it's designed mostly to clean the sensor, not for long exposures.
This is not true. With a remote, you CAN lock the mirror for long exposure. The remote allows you to lessen vibration. For some reason the D50 doesn't allow you to trigger it with a timer. The only in-camera mirror lock for long exposure is to physically hold the shutter button.

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Old Apr 27, 2006, 11:16 PM   #15
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Does the D50 really have mirror lock up? I thought mirror lock up meant that the mirror is put up in the open position first, separate from when the shutter curtain is opened.

Every D50 review I've read says that there is no mirror lock up mode. I can see where the remote would lessen the vibration, but I think the mirror goes up at the same time the shutter curtain is opened. I might be wrong though. I'm going to check my manual again.

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The D50 has mirror lockup but it's designed mostly to clean the sensor, not for long exposures.
This is not true. With a remote, you CAN lock the mirror for long exposure. The remote allows you to lessen vibration. For some reason the D50 doesn't allow you to trigger it with a timer. The only in-camera mirror lock for long exposure is to physically hold the shutter button.

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Old Apr 27, 2006, 11:43 PM   #16
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Quote:
Does the D50 really have mirror lock up? I thought mirror lock up meant that the mirror is put up in the open position first, separate from when the shutter curtain is opened. Every D50 review I've read says that there is no mirror lock up mode. I can see where the remote would lessen the vibration, but I think the mirror goes up at the same time the shutter curtain is opened. I might be wrong though. I'm going to check my manual again.


I think what you're describing here is Mirror Pre-Release. What it does is lessen the vibration since the mirror slap can happen way after the shutter is opened, thus reducing vibration.

From what I understand the two are different. Mirror Lockup is when you can keep the mirror up for long exposures (ie longer than the built-in 30 seconds). Usually you can trigger this via timer, but with D50, you have to keep the shutter button down with your finger, and if you let go of the shutter button, the shutter (and mirror) will drop. With a remote, you can keep the mirror up (I think up to 30 mins, but I'm not sure since I don't have a remote).

To use mirror-lockup manually, set the camera to M mode and turn the dial to change the shutter time pass 30 seconds to "bulb". When you press the shutter, the mirror locks until you let it go.

See Page 40 and 46 of the manual. (I'm looking at the online PDF manual).

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Old Apr 28, 2006, 12:44 AM   #17
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Okay, after reading more about this, I think my nomenclature is mixed up.

Mirror Lock-up is when you lock-up the mirror independent of the shutter, thus avoiding the vibration from mirror slap. With the D50, mirror cannot be locked except for cleaning, but it has BULB mode for long exposure.

Mirror Pre-Fire is what *some* cameras have, where the camera delays the shutter release, say... by two seconds, after the mirror is up, therefore avoiding the mirror slap vibration.

*Most cameras that have the features above doesn't differentiate between the two.

Bulb Mode is when you keep the shutter and mirror up for long exposure.

So the D50 has Bulb Mode, but it works better with remote. For some reason, Nikon made the bulb mode so that you have to hold the shutter button down, otherwise the mirror and shutter will close and end exposure. I assume in the Rebel XT (and others) you can trigger it to open, let it go and then trigger it again to end exposure.

If you are confused after reading this, then that makes two of us.

Peace.


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Old Apr 28, 2006, 1:31 AM   #18
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I am just wondering. I have a Pentax *ist DS and know that's not being considered. However, have you discounted he Canon 350D? Some people say it's too small for their hands. Some people don't like the build quality. However, image quality wise, I heard it was very close to the 20D. I doesn't have as impressive a burst mode, but ... it's about 400 bucks cheaper now. You could use that money for lenses. Anyway, good luck with whatever you choose.
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Old Apr 28, 2006, 9:45 AM   #19
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I'm in a similar boat as dandcp.

I'm a newbie to dslr but after years using point & shoot, it's time I took the step to dslr.
I've been considering between the D70s and 350D although I'm having second thoughts now. The dilemma is this: Should I buy an older but cheaper body such as a used 300D or D100 and spend more money on at least 2 lenses? Would you recommend buying a used dlsr, assuming it's been cleaned?

If you think that buying a used body is worthwhile, what other cameras would you recommend besides the 2 which I had mentioned?
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Old Apr 28, 2006, 10:02 AM   #20
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Woof,

This is just my prejudice, but I personally don't like buying used electronic equipment. Lenses are one thing as the electronics are a bit simpler and not as prone to breakdown. But a DSLR camera body has a lot of electronics and most have only been around a few years so there isn't much knowledge about how long they will last. I would not be personally comfortable buying a used digital device.

I'm still a fan of buying a decent body and a single good quality lens to start with. I don't buy into the 'upgrade' mentality of 'buy this $200 lens and upgrade in a year when you have more money'. Those $200 lenses don't have much resale value - so I'd rather invest in one solid mid-range zoom lens to start with that is highly recommended and that you won't have to upgrade unless you are going to professional quality. There is always going to be more gear you identify as needed over the years. I would rather spend my money buying gear that fills holes rather than buying gear to replace something I already have but is too low quality (with the possible exception of the $50 kit lens that may come with your camera).

As for what body you buy - buy the one that has the features you NEED for your photography. As with a lens, if the body doesn't have the features you need, within a year you'll be wanting to upgrade.
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