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Old Jul 6, 2006, 12:42 PM   #91
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zygh wrote:
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Panasonics have a noise issue, a big one. They should really adress this problem before convincing an ex-Panny owner like myself to go buy thier stuff ever again. It's like I wrote on other threads. The FZ30 is a superb camera but the high noise at even a basic ISO 100 totally ruins everything, for me, at least.

I agree with meanstreak 101%. The FZ30 is what finally got me to go dSLR. I couldn't go back to a compact P&S after having all those manual setting at my hand. In my opinion, the standard at which all P&S should be reviewed should be the Fujis. I don't care whether it's postprocessing or magic, the important thing for me is that the Fujis get you where you wanna go more times than a noisy digicam like Panny does.

Having wide in P&S cams is important, I don't dispute that, but, in my opinion, it is much more important to get usable results straight out of the camera.I am attaching a snapshot I took with my Fujifilm F10 at ISO800. It was wellafter sun-down, the only illumination was from a street lamp.I only resized it in Photoshop. Download it to see full exif. peripathetic, can you please share with the rest of us an unprocessed image at even ISO400 with the FX01 in similar light conditions as the photo I have posted?
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Nice Shot..... I just was price checking the F30 and notice there is 50 dollar rebate. Very tempting!
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Old Jul 6, 2006, 2:32 PM   #92
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meanstreak, that F30 looks absolutely incredible. I mean, from a feature point of view too. Here's a review I found: http://www.dcresource.com/reviews/fu...ew/index.shtml . Check out those ISO test shots. It is absolutely amazing. I don't think any p&s can touch it as things are right now (except maybe for the R1, but that is a freak machine and don't realy consider it much of anything). I think that if maybe people were better informed about what they buy, Fujifilm would double or tripple their profits.
Tell you the truth, I'd upgrade from my F10 to the F30 just to get those extra manual settings, if not for anything else.
Cheers!
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Old Jul 6, 2006, 6:50 PM   #93
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Yeah, it's a fine little camera. I got the (import only) F11 which has the manual settings. I think it was not released in the US because they were already preparing to launch the F30. But other than the ISO3200 capability (which I cando without)it seems to be about the same. Only complaint: It tends to overexpose in automatic mode in daylight. On the other hand, the F10 which I owned briefly before flipping it for the F11 underexposed flash lit pictures. What's your experience with that? Or was that just a fluke? The review at imaging-resource.com said the same about the F10.

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Old Jul 7, 2006, 3:43 AM   #94
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peripathetic, can you please share with the rest of us an unprocessed image at even ISO400 with the FX01 in similar light conditions as the photo I have posted?
I don't believe I have ever taken a shot with the FX01 at ISO400.

I'm not suggesting that the F30 doesn't have very good high-ISO performance for such a small sensor, it does. But for the kind of shot you posted above I can show you many shots with my Canon 20D which have dramatically higher resolution, better colour balance, and very little noise by comparison.

For the kind of shot you posted I would use an SLR because the quality from the F30, though technically impressive is still not even close to photographically acceptable.

If I were shooting that scene withANY camera I would use a tripod, and would therefore be using a lower ISO anyway.

If you want to compare the ISO performance of two cameras I think the reviews at DPReview are excellent, and the FX01 holds its own against the Canon SD630 it is compared to, though is clearly not as good as the F10. I do prefer the colour rendition and the fact that there is less in-camera sharpening applied and fewer artifacts visible than either of the other two cameras.

http://www.dpreview.com/reviews/panasonicfx01/

If the F30 had a wide angle lens I would not have bought the FX01, I would instead have waited for the F30. But it doesn't and the difference at the wide angle of the lenses on those two cameras is far more important to me than going for the best of a bad bunch on ISO performance.

The lovely little Leica wide-angle lens atf2.8 with Image Stabilisation at 28mm equivalent means the camera does all I want of it.

Everyone has different needs of course, but meanstreak was looking for a compact to complement his DSLR; I merely suggested he add the FX01 to his shortlist of cameras to consider.

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Panasonics have a noise issue, a big one.
I would never get an FZ30 unless I was sure of the light conditions I wanted to use it under - why use one when you could usean SLR? I understand why you must be so disappointed in your purchase.

Similarly I would never get the LX1 - I think the noise even at ISO 80 is not acceptable, but the FX01 is better.

http://www.stevesforums.com/forums/v...mp;forum_id=23

http://fmoore.zoto.com/galleries/firstfx01/


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Old Jul 7, 2006, 4:19 AM   #95
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that's right peripatetic, the dpreview review of the FX01 is pretty explicit when it comes to what an F10 can do compared to a FX01. I totally understand your point of view regarding wide angle, though.

I just posted that snapshot to show people what an awesome camera the F10 is. I didn't say it was a terrific photographic achievement. Still, your comparison with the 20D is highly exagerated. regarding the FX01 holding ground to the canon SD630 or whatever, the way I look at things is that the only valid comparison is with the best of the game and the SD630 is far from it.any brand cannot achieve much with a new model if itaims itat anything but the best competitor on the market.

it's like I said on other threads already, P&S speaking, I feel that brands like Canon, Panny, Sony and all the rest of 'em should really start making improvements on picture quality at high ISOs and not just throw newer and newer models on the market with more megapixels that do absolutely squat (at best!) for noise control. because of this, to me, there is only one P&S brandworthy of my hard-earned cash, and that is Fujifilm.
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Old Jul 7, 2006, 8:59 AM   #96
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All I know is I wish I could find a compact P&S camera that could take pictures as lifelike as my KM 7D. You can almost visualize the butterfly's wings flapping as he hovers over the magnolia flower in this image.

http://webspace.delphiforums.com/vie...lymagnolia.gif
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Old Jul 7, 2006, 10:15 AM   #97
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Due to their larger sensors, the DSLR cameras, under the current technology, are always going to win when pitted against P&S cameras. However, I think what Zygh is saying (and please correct me, if I am incorrect) is that camera size, weight, and ease of usehas toalso come into play within this equation.

There is no denying the size, weight, and ease of use factors that a Fuji F-10/F-30 or a Panasonic FX01 can contribute to a quick photo taking experience. It is probably for that reason that a goodly number of us DSLR users also carry a pocket or companion camera to our DSLR camera.

Sony has attempted to address this problem with their R-1 camera, and it grew and grew in size until it is nearly DSLR size. I am afraid that this is not a case of a single camera solution, and that technology has to catch up a bit to meet even our current needs.

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Old Jul 7, 2006, 12:20 PM   #98
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zygh - Was your F30 shot hand held or tripod. The shutter speed is 1/4sec at ISO800. FX01 could have got similar results with tripod at lower ISO. Sure it can't compare to F30 at high ISO but then F30 can't do 28mm either. So there is no perfect solution.
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Old Jul 7, 2006, 12:58 PM   #99
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bobbyz wrote:
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zygh - Was your F30 shot hand held or tripod. The shutter speed is 1/4sec at ISO800. FX01 could have got similar results with tripod at lower ISO. Sure it can't compare to F30 at high ISO but then F30 can't do 28mm either. So there is no perfect solution.
What's wrong with this picture?

Getting similiar results by using a tripod is not making a fair comparison between cameras so the point of the comparison escapes me. Getting quality shots in low light conditions is probably top priority over wide angle shots with a point and shoot unless you have a specific need. If all you shoot is close outdoor landscape shots or in tight quartersindoors then wide over ISOis the way to go, but you better be prepared to use artificial light since the quality of most of these gadgets with small sensors is lacking at best.

Unless a point and shoot isyour only camera why bother to use a tripod. If you are going to carry a tripod might as well carry the DSLR in the interest of taking real quality photos. I don't have a compact digital at the moment but I never used a tripod with my compact 35mm camera. By no means am Isuggesting that people shouldn't ever use a tripod with that type of camera, but for most people the idea of the compact is to take it out of you pocket or bag and take pictures. That's why they call it "point and shoot" instead of "set the stage and shoot". Again, if it is your only camera or perhaps in situations were you might be indoors taking a lot pictures and the tripod is handy then be my guest, otherwise whip it out and snap away.


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Old Jul 7, 2006, 1:14 PM   #100
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bobbyz wrote:
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zygh - Was your F30 shot hand held or tripod. The shutter speed is 1/4sec at ISO800. FX01 could have got similar results with tripod at lower ISO. Sure it can't compare to F30 at high ISO but then F30 can't do 28mm either. So there is no perfect solution.


Yeah, it was handheld. And it was done with a F10. And I don't think that bringing the whole tripod into the equation is really any praise for a camera. I mean, one great photographer once said something that goes like this: "The best lens is your tripod..." So... :blah:

P.S. I also agree 110% with Gozinta. His point is very clear and it expresses myexact thoughts on the matter: a p&s is first and foremost a portable, easy to use andquick-results kind of camera. Its basic principle is providing theuser with immediate results. That is why I feel that Fujis (especially the F10, F11 and F30) cannot be touched by any competing model available today.

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