Go Back   Steve's Digicams Forums > Digicam Help > What Camera Should I Buy?

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old Jun 23, 2006, 8:24 PM   #1
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Posts: 6
Default

I'm FINALLY making the move from my archaic Minolta X-700 35mm cameraw/ zoom lens to a digital camera. I want to go w/ one that has a zoom lens and high megapixels. The most important aspects to meare picture quality and use ofcurrent technology; I'm not too concerned about movie mode. I really haven't seen many reviews on the Sony DSC H-5 yet since it's so new. I'm wondering ifthe Sony DSC H-5is the best ultra zoom currently on the market, and if not, which ultra zoom is the best on the market that is around the same price-range (approx $450)? Please write if you have any ideas about this. Thank you!!
Cali is offline   Reply With Quote
Sponsored Links
Old Jun 25, 2006, 11:13 AM   #2
Senior Member
 
Telecorder's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Posts: 490
Default

Cali-

As you indicate, there's not much out there on the H5, as yet. But in the super zoom category, the FZ30 is one of the leading digis. If you're not in a rush, it might be wise to both wait on more detailed info on the H5 and see if July 21 brings any announcement about the possible FZ30 replacement...

For me, the FZ30's native extended optical zoom to 19.3X (in-camera crop to 3-MP center of the 8-MP sensor) and its rotating LCD screen fit my needs and desires for more reach -- for $472. Native to 675mm equivalent. With my $80 TCON1.7X lens, I can get out to 1140mm. Yes, this is a light hungry camera and exhibits some noise but, for my needs, these issues are overhyped and over blown out of proportion, IMHO.
Telecorder is offline   Reply With Quote
Old Jun 25, 2006, 4:10 PM   #3
Senior Member
 
Sintares's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Posts: 647
Default

Well we are still waiting for dpreview to publish its H5 review but while we are waiting read the FZ30 review and its conclusion ( http://www.dpreview.com/reviews/pana...z30/page17.asp )

You can also check out the posted H5 pics at the Dpreview Sony talk forum and to a much lesser extent there are some pics from the few people on this sites' Sony forum.

You may also want to consider the sheer weight and bulk of this camera compared to the Sony H5 and Canon S3 mini slr styled cameras. Its not a lot smaller than a dslr and weighs more than the H5 etc , so add that to your considerations.

fz30

141 x 86 x 138 mm (5.5 x 3.4 x 5.4 in)
740 g (inc batt)

H5

108 x 81 x 92 mm (4.3 x 3.2 x 3.6 in)
490 g



style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: #000000"And while the FZ30 has excellent performance it does not use AAs, which are available in practically every shop on this planet. So that backup battery you need to buy will be expensive and hard to get except at major camera retailers..

style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: #000000"When my pocket tore and I dropped my spare AAs in the ocean I was able to buy more rechargeables across the road at a small shop, you drop your spare in the ocean , lets hope a major retailer is 2 mins walk away ...

Sintares is offline   Reply With Quote
Old Jun 25, 2006, 6:05 PM   #4
E.T
Senior Member
 
E.T's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2003
Posts: 921
Default

I wouldn't even call H-5 as advanced camera, button zoom and menu surfing controls.

There's only few long zoom cameras which I might keep as advanced ultrazooms.
Fuji S9000 which has good wide angle, no stabilization but better than average noise characteristics. (or more exactly very effective noise removing)
That Pana FZ30, has stabilization but lacks wide angle.
Then there's Samsung 815 which has longest zoom from good wide angle to very long tele but no stabilization and average sensor.

Although compared to my current camera (designed/made 2¬Ĺ years ago) I don't see any top end technology/innovations in these.


But because we're in that unfortunate situation not being able to get perfect camera with everything most important thing instead of meaningless "zoom" number is what kind targets you would photograph? Is it wild animals/birds from distance? Is it wide sceneries, landscapes and architecture?
Is there need for taking lower light photos of moving targets? And everything like that.



Telecorder wrote:
Quote:
For me, the FZ30's native extended optical zoom to 19.3X (in-camera crop to 3-MP center of the 8-MP sensor) and its rotating LCD screen fit my needs and desires for more reach -- for $472. Native to 675mm equivalent.
And again stop repeating that bullshit.
Cropping won't make focal length any longer, there's still same amount of details than in 420mm, only thing which changes when you use it is "marketing department pissing on to your eye."

"Advertising is legalized lying."
-H. G. Wells
E.T is offline   Reply With Quote
Old Jun 25, 2006, 6:15 PM   #5
Senior Member
 
Justinian's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Posts: 249
Default

Have you checked out the Panasonic Lumix DMC-FZ7? It consistently has received great reviews. Here are the specs and some user reviews and a side by side comparison b/t the FZ7 and the H5:

http://www.dpreview.com/reviews/compare_post.asp?method=sidebyside&cameras=pan asonic_dmcfz7%2Csony_dsch5&show=all


I just researched all the ultrazooms and decided on the FZ7. This is the web site that convinced me to choose the FZ7 with its great summary of every review available:

http://www.digitalcameratracker.com/archives/2006/05/21/panasonic-lumix-dmcfz7-review-roundup.html

Yeah, it does not have a hot shoe or RAW, but neither does the H5. Plus the FZ7 costs over $100 less. I bought the FZ7 for $314.00 with free shipping from http://www.beachcamera.com - this past Friday!


Justinian is offline   Reply With Quote
Old Jun 25, 2006, 6:44 PM   #6
Senior Member
 
Telecorder's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Posts: 490
Default

E.T wrote:
Quote:
And again stop repeating that bullshit.
ET-

I was attempting to be courteous and respectful of others' opinions, including yours,and would ask that you do likewise.Personal demands and attacks are very unseemly for anyone. Please note that you quoted my statement as 675 mm Equivalent, which it is - IMHO. You are free to hold a differing opinion, and express it if you please. But, please do not feel that you are free to demand that others' opinions, which with you disagree,are to cease because it is at odds with yours...

Feel free to post your credentials as a professionaloptics engineer and/or to cite respected and recognized professionals' work to bolster your stated opinion. I've an open mind-- you present the scientific facts for review. If they can pass the muster of scrutiny, I'll be the first to acknowledge mea culpa. Until then, I'll beg to differ, will continue to express my opinions and post them as I see appropriate...

For those who would like to evaluate the question for themselves, review the information for Extended Optical Zoom by Panasonic at:

http://panasonic.co.jp/pavc/global/l...z30/leica.html
Telecorder is offline   Reply With Quote
Old Jun 25, 2006, 10:31 PM   #7
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Posts: 6
Default

Thanks for everyone's feedback!

I will be shooting both indoor and outdoor shots, mostly of family. The only real action shots I plan to takewill be those ofmy 1yr old daughterin motion.

There are many articles and sample photos depicting high noise levels of the ultra zooms at all but the lowest ISO settings. Seems like you would need quite a bit of light to take a good quality photo (not sure what ISO setting one would typically need to usew/ indoor light). Does anyoneknowif there's an ultrazoom out there with low noise levels and image stabilization? Since very good picture quality is the most important aspect I'm looking for in an ultrazoom, I would like one that has low noise at an ISO setting capable of taking great indoor shots with averge or somewhat low indoor light. DP Review indicated that the FZ7 & FZ30 have higher than averarge noise even at ISO 80, which does concern me a bit. Regarding the H5, in the Sony Discussion Board on this site (Steve's Digicams)under topic 'DSC-H1 vs. DSC-H5' are pictures posted from the H5 that look pretty bad in comparison to the H1. :O

Well...back to my research...:?....or perhaps I'll just throw a dart and pick one....:lol:.
Cali is offline   Reply With Quote
Old Jun 25, 2006, 11:42 PM   #8
Senior Member
 
Telecorder's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Posts: 490
Default

Cali wrote:
Quote:
Thanks for everyone's feedback!

Well...back to my research...:?....or perhaps I'll just throw a dart and pick one....:lol:.
You're welcome... sometimes one can over analyze reviews, reports etc. Actual user photo images are the best along with physically handling the digi.

Most all prosumer digis will have issue w/noise and problems in low light. Its a nature of the small chip beast. Super zooms, by and large will be light hungry and somewhat poor performers in low light. You need the bigger chip a dSLR affords you for these circumstances.

Prosumer noise, by and large, can usually be handled by software such as Neat Image and the like. The Pany's have a somewhat undeserved rep, IMHO, about noise only due toits in-camera processingbeing minimal to preserve the image detail. Other similar digis, IMHO, over process the noise and lose/muddy the image details. Printingto 5x7,the noise bcomes a non-issue. Even then, Neat Image usually addresses the issue. Ask on the Pany forums and look at images by Pany FZ30 owners...

http://trailhiker.smugmug.com/

http://razorsharp.smugmug.com/gallery/1205780

http://www.iciclelanding.com/apertur...view=albumlist

Having said all that, if a good percentage of images will be in low light, indoors etc, the Pany FZ probably would not be the right digi for you... You'd probably be better off increasing the budget for an entry dSLR and foregoing the zoom reach until you can afford the glass...
Telecorder is offline   Reply With Quote
Old Jun 26, 2006, 5:14 AM   #9
E.T
Senior Member
 
E.T's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2003
Posts: 921
Default

Cali wrote:
Quote:
The only real action shots I plan to take¬*will be those of¬*my 1yr old daughter¬*in motion.
In that case using flash for stopping motion in low light is quite propably possible.

Quote:
Does anyone¬*know¬*if there's an ultrazoom out there with low noise levels and image stabilization?
Nope... and low noise isn't possible with high MP count small sensors, even sensors of Fujis are only somewhat better, rest comes from phenomenally effective noise removing.


Quote:
Since very good picture quality is the most important aspect I'm looking for in an ultrazoom, I would like one that has low noise at an ISO setting capable of taking great indoor shots with averge or somewhat low indoor light.
What size prints you would make? For small sizes using higher and noisier sensitivity is possible because noise gets "averaged away". (although small size won't help for Sony's NR removed colours)

As for light levels even average indoor lightning is very dim compared to sunny day outside.
While human eye isn't really top product of evolution in most aspects it still has very remarkable capabilities compared to manmade sensors.


Quote:
Regarding the H5, in the Sony Discussion Board on this site (Steve's Digicams)¬*under topic 'DSC-H1 vs. DSC-H5' are pictures posted from the H5 that look pretty bad in comparison to the H1.
Yep, too much megapixels in too small sensor which leads requirement for very heavy noise removing... and Sony's one happens to be such which even removes most of colours while leaving colour noise.



Telecorder wrote:
Quote:
Please note that you quoted my statement as 675 mm Equivalent, which it is - IMHO. You are free to hold a differing opinion, and express it if you please. But, please do not feel that you are free to demand that others' opinions, which with you disagree,¬*are to cease because it is at odds with yours...

Feel free to post your credentials as a professional¬*optics engineer and/or to cite respected and recognized professionals' work to bolster your stated opinion. I've an open mind-- you present the scientific facts for review.
Compare 3MP digizoom shot to center portion of one taken without it. (use tripod for keeping framing exactly same between shots)
There's exactly same amount of details!
Real optical zoom/increasing focal length brings new, smaller details visible. (like when you go from half zoom to full zoom with zoom ring)
So it's pure digital zoom with changed clothes, they just left out the part of "mathemathically wild ass guessing" new 5MP for getting "full" 8MP picture.

Comparisons of Panasonic's page are totally useless for anything, first of all subject isn't same between shots... then they should be full size shots, not postage stamps!


That's why common sense should be used always, it reveals lot of "cheap lies". Especially advertising should be always taken with bucket of monomethylhydrazine and nitrogen tetroxide.
E.T is offline   Reply With Quote
Old Jun 26, 2006, 2:12 PM   #10
Senior Member
 
Sintares's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Posts: 647
Default

Most of the early pictures from the H5 looked a bit rough, however look at the later pictures when people got used to it and/or replaced the slightly dodgy early model H5s with ones that could focus properly.

Check out AAks (of the H1 whitepaper fame), early pics with his H5 even he was disappointed with it , but it was the focusing that was broken.

One new H5 later and all solved, though the new cam has since died it has appeared, so onwards to number 3 !

And yes, some people have commented on the quality control at Sony, but its no worse than the QA at Canon with their myriad of problems with the S2 and S3 and AAK is personally on his 3rd D200 (and look at the cost of that ...)

AAk mostly shows his shots off in the Sony Talk Forum over at Dpreview, check there for the best pictures.

And ignore any comments from the H5 haters, we all know it can't do iso 800-1000 without desaturating the colours, however it has a usable iso 400 and marginal 800 if worked on, for smaller pics.

Use it at the lower isos and all is well, stunning , sharp pictures, certainly it outclasses the Canon S2 and S3 and thats all we Sony lovers wanted eh ? :G



Sintares is offline   Reply With Quote
 
Reply


Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 11:16 PM.