Go Back   Steve's Digicams Forums > Digicam Help > What Camera Should I Buy?

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old Jul 18, 2006, 11:35 AM   #11
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Posts: 27
Default

Yeah, I am looking at and trying to take everything into consideration which is why this is such a hard decision for me. I like certain features of each model. But thanks for all your imput, I really do appreciate it all.
kuulaaid is offline   Reply With Quote
Old Jul 18, 2006, 12:47 PM   #12
Administrator
 
Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: Savannah, GA (USA)
Posts: 22,378
Default

[email protected] wrote:
Quote:
Before you make your decision on the KM 5D versus the Rebel XT, compare images between the two at ISO1600, which is really a test of how clean (ie digital noise) the sensor delivers.
They should be pretty close if the images are exposed the same way.

Steve has some tests of the same subjects using the same camera settings in their reviews here (see the ISO series).

Rebel XT Sample Images

Konica Minolta Maxxum 5D Sample Images

Konica Minolta Maxxum 5D, ISO 1600, f/8, 1/20 second:
http://www.steves-digicams.com/2005_...19_iso1600.JPG

Canon Rebel XT, ISO 1600, f/8, 1/20 second (same exposure as 5D image):
http://www.steves-digicams.com/2005_...52_iso1600.jpg

The KM models measure lower than other popular models in their market niches though (via Imatest results).

http://www.imaging-resource.com/PROD...M5DIMATEST.HTM

Popphoto had a recent shootout between cameras, and rated noise as follows:

Canon Rebel XT Noise: Very Low at ISO 100, Low at ISO 200, Moderately Low at ISO 400, Moderate at ISO 800, Unacceptable at ISO 1600.

http://www.popphoto.com/cameras/1924...out-page3.html

Konica Minolta Maxxum 5d Noise: Low at ISO 100 and 400, Very Low at ISO 200, Moderately Low at ISO 800, Moderate at ISO 1600.

http://www.popphoto.com/cameras/1924...out-page2.html

But, I reallly don't think the Canon is unacceptable at ISO 1600 (despite Pop Photo's opinion of it). The subject type and exposure can make a big difference in the noise levels you see, and judging from Steve's samples (same subjects and exposure settings), there really isn't a lot of difference.

Check out sample images at the print and viewing sizes you'll need. Just because an image has noise at higher ISO speeds, doesn't mean that it's going to be a problem for you (depending on print/viewing sizes needed).

Quote:
Also, check out a comparisoin of responsiveness (ie shutter lag) between the two digicams.

Nobody like using a slow DSLR.
The lens and the lighting will make the biggest difference there. Most cameras do OK in good light with a decent lens. In low light is where you start seeing more difference.

Acording to tests performed by PopPhoto, the Konica Minolta 5D's AF system was able to focus faster and in lower light (focuses in -1 EV light), compared to the other entry level DSLR models they tested (comparing the Konica Minolta 5D, Canon Rebel XT, Olympus Evolt E-500 and Nikon D50).

They said this about it:
Quote:
The 9-zone AF system is the fastest of this group and works down to EV -1, very dim light indeed.
http://www.popphoto.com/cameras/1924/hotshot-shoot-out-page3.html

They clocked it as follows in various light levels. It's my understanding that a 50mm f/1.4 is the lens most commonly used by them to test DSLR AF performance.

Konica Minolta Maxxum 5D AF Speed: EV 12: 0.32 sec; EV 10: 0.33 sec; EV 8: 0.41 sec; EV 6: 0.57 sec; EV 4: 0.59 sec; EV 2: 0.86 sec; EV 1: 0.87 sec; EV 0: 0.93 sec; EV -1: 1.85 sec.

The closest competitor in the Autofocus Area was the Nikon D50. The other models were left a bit behind, especially in very low light (even the Rebel XT couldn't lock focus in light lower than 0 EV, and it took over 2 seconds to lock focus there). In EV 0 lighting, the KM 5D was more than twice as fast.

Of course, don't expect AF to work in light that low without a decent lens (kit lenses aren't going to be bright enough to cut it, and a dim lens impacts how much light is seen by the camera's AF sensors). For example, the 18-70mm f/3.5-5.6 kit lens for the 5D is down to f/5.6 by the time you zoom into 35mm with it. That's not very bright. A 50mm f/1.4 would be exactly 16 times as bright compared to a lens that was at f/5.6. ;-)

Ditto for a lens that's not as sharp at wider apertures (impacts the image seen by the AF sensors, since a camera always focuses with the aperture wide open).

I've been pretty surprised at how low of light I've been able to lock focus in using a KM 5D with a decent lens on it.

In one of the local restaurants here with live music, light is so low I need to underexpose 1/3 stop just to get shutter speeds up to 1/10 second shooting with a Minolta 100mm f/2 wide open at f/2 and ISO 3200, and I can still lock focus using an *outside* focus point (albeit with some difficulty). I keep forgetting to ask them if they'd mind moving a candle or two closer to the performer.
JimC is offline   Reply With Quote
Old Jul 18, 2006, 1:46 PM   #13
Senior Member
 
mtclimber's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Oregon, USA
Posts: 18,143
Default

kuulaide-

JimC has certainly provided a wealth of technical references for you that should be invaluable in looking at the technical aspects of these two cameras.

There is one more step that you should also take. Physically handle each one of the cameras on your dream list. When I did that, I found that I personally,did not like the grip or the viewfinder on the Canon 350d/XT. The grip was way too small or pinched for me, and the viewfinder is not a pentaprism type viewfinder. I felt it was like looked down a long darkened hallway. So I decided the Canon XT was not for me.

MT
mtclimber is offline   Reply With Quote
Old Jul 18, 2006, 2:47 PM   #14
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Posts: 11
Default

Overall your choice should be about comfort however be aware of one subtle but significant difference (at least for me it was)

Here's a clip from a previous post on the subject:

----
I did end up getting a KM 5D at Ritz. A good deal on a camera that felt great. However I had to return it because of the Flash performance. The onboard flash has a slightly longer delay between strobe and shutter than the other cams in the entry field. The flash delay caused my subjects' eyes to half close resulting in unattractive shots. I now have a Rebel XT and enjoy the speed and flexibility. To anyone considering an ultra-zoom and a dSLR, I say do not be intimidated by the dSLR functions/options. You can use one as a P&S and get great shots while you learn how to make use of what a dSLR has to offer.
----

Two other differences:
The KM5D is much louder than the Rebel (or the others in the field). This did not bother me but it's something to be aware of.

Speed. I am sure the numbers are close to the same but the XT seems faster in continuous mode - probably my imagination.
dandy35 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old Jul 18, 2006, 7:09 PM   #15
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Posts: 27
Default

I cannot say enough about how impressed I am with all the help you guys are offering. I thinkI have made up my mind, definately because of all the help I recieved here on this forum! Thanks for taking the time to help me out.

AFter weeks of research and reading, I now only have one more test ahead of me. I now need to go and find a 5D that I can hold and see if it fits me right. And if it does, I believe that will be my choice.

Thanks again.
kuulaaid is offline   Reply With Quote
Old Jul 18, 2006, 7:15 PM   #16
Administrator
 
Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: Savannah, GA (USA)
Posts: 22,378
Default

Most stores sold out a couple of months ago. Ditto for the distributors (they ran out a long time ago).

Brick and Mortar type stores would probably be your best bet.

I see some member reports from to time about finding them at Circuit City stores at closeout prices. So, that would be one place to try.

Wal-Mart has some 7D kits for $724 while supplies last:

http://www.walmart.com/catalog/produ...uct_id=4898002


JimC is offline   Reply With Quote
Old Jul 18, 2006, 11:39 PM   #17
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Posts: 27
Default

I have a couple sources right now, but yeah, they are getting harder and harder to find.
kuulaaid is offline   Reply With Quote
Old Jul 19, 2006, 12:34 AM   #18
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Posts: 23
Default

kuulaaid wrote:
Quote:
I have a couple sources right now, but yeah, they are getting harder and harder to find.
That Circuit City deal for the KM 5D is outrageous. If you can get one for less than 5bills, you can definitely pick up a great lens for less than 2bills. Those two (KM5d + better lens) would pretty much cost you 1 XT with kit lens, or maybe even less.

Good luck btw, and let us know what you think with your soon to be D-SLR, 5D.

Fellow KM owner,
Venn (7D)
vclipse is offline   Reply With Quote
Old Jul 19, 2006, 8:20 AM   #19
Senior Member
 
meanstreak's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Posts: 1,234
Default

vclipse wrote:
Quote:
kuulaaid wrote:
Quote:
I have a couple sources right now, but yeah, they are getting harder and harder to find.
That Circuit City deal for the KM 5D is outrageous. If you can get one for less than 5bills, you can definitely pick up a great lens for less than 2bills. Those two (KM5d + better lens) would pretty much cost you 1 XT with kit lens, or maybe even less.

Good luck btw, and let us know what you think with your soon to be D-SLR, 5D.

Fellow KM owner,
Venn (7D)
It's really hard to determine whether the 5D or 7D is the best deal right now. To some people, it may not be worth two hundred dollars more in the way it takes pictures, but the 7D is a heck of a camera for around 700 bucks with the kit lens. Of course under 500 for a 5D is incredible also. I paid more for my 7D, but it came with the 28-75mm 2.8 D lens, which I am very pleased with. At the time 5Ds were scarse and running between 600 and 700 so it was easy for me to go with the 7D. Had the 5D been around for under 500 at the time, the choice would have been clear.

I ended up with both a 7D and a 5D because I bought a 5D for 269 with the kit lens from circuit city. It was actually 299, but I managed to get them to use a 10% coupon which was only for regulary priced merchandise. The reason it was so cheap was thatit was a display model with no accessories, but since I have a 7D, I don't need them. Makes a great backup camera or more suitable for certain situations where a lighter camera is more practical. Also keeps me from having to switch lenses when I can afford to bring both, which is a time saver and helps minimize dust issues. I can honestly say that for under 500 I would still buy a 5D as a backup to the 7D or even as a backup to a 5D. Heck, when Walmart was selling the 7D for 699, I almost considered buying the 7D as a back up instead.

meanstreak is offline   Reply With Quote
Old Jul 19, 2006, 9:04 AM   #20
Senior Member
 
zygh's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Posts: 531
Default

meanstreak, you could open a regular K-M dSLR store with all the gear you've got! ever considered selling one of your babies to those less fortunate?! :lol:
zygh is offline   Reply With Quote
 
Reply


Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 1:17 AM.