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Old Jul 31, 2006, 7:35 AM   #11
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Okay, thanks for all the help so far.

I might even consider the A100 with the kit lens who knows...

The kit lens of the EOS 350D is not acceptable for me and probably same for the one with the D50. (I would rather consider an R1 if I have to go for those).

The kit lens of the D70s is great but is quite above my budget combined with the D70s body (The D70s kit promo).

So I guess I just need to find decent lens for the EOS 350D, D50or the D70s.



Regards + thanks for the 50 mm lens advice. (Great advice that is!), I also guessed that 50 mm will be rather limiting.
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Old Aug 1, 2006, 6:34 AM   #12
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B&W

If you're going to be a serious digital photographer you will be shooting RAW anddo your B&W conversion in photoshop.

It makes no difference whether the camera offers it as an option or not.

Kit Lenses

None of them are as bad as you think. The cheapest ones are all quite sharp and easily the best value-for-money lenses their respective manufacturers make. It is very easy to get caught up in internet commentators' statements on loop e.g. "The Canon kit lens is rubbish." If repeated often enough (and that one sure has been) then people who don't know any better (like yourself) will believe it.

If you decide you like one of the cameras more than the others then don't let a poor reputation of the kit lens put you off.

The best place to compare the lens performance in detail is photozone.de they have Imatest published results. There is very little to choose between them in general.

Learning curve

You can drive yourself crazy comparing one camera to another, and you seem to be going a long way down that path.

Whichever one you choose YOU will be the limiting factor for a long time to come, not the equipment.

Of course that doesn't help you choose a camera, but the message is "lighten up" whichever one you choose will be fine. Choosing the one you think is "coolest" is as good a method as any for the cameras you are looking at.


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Old Aug 1, 2006, 7:35 AM   #13
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B&W 

If you're going to be a serious digital photographer you will be shooting RAW anddo your B&W conversion in photoshop.

It makes no difference whether the camera offers it as an option or not.
Don't you think it is more fun to shoot B&W directly (Perhapes with filters)? I find the trill in doing so. :-)I "hardly" PP my photos in all honesty...(Maybe in future...). But I just like to shoot B&W images.

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Kit Lenses

None of them are as bad as you think. The cheapest ones are all quite sharp and easily the best value-for-money lenses their respective manufacturers make. It is very easy to get caught up in internet commentators' statements on loop e.g. "The Canon kit lens is rubbish." If repeated often enough (and that one sure has been) then people who don't know any better (like yourself) will believe it. 

If you decide you like one of the cameras more than the others then don't let a poor reputation of the kit lens put you off. 

The best place to compare the lens performance in detail is photozone.de they have Imatest published results. There is very little to choose between them in general.
Thanks for the encouragement.

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Learning curve

You can drive yourself crazy comparing one camera to another, and you seem to be going a long way down that path.

Whichever one you choose YOU will be the limiting factor for a long time to come, not the equipment.

Of course that doesn't help you choose a camera, but the message is "lighten up" whichever one you choose will be fine. Choosing the one you think is "coolest" is as good a method as any for the cameras you are looking at.
Maybe I was into it! :shock:It has already been like that for sometime. Perhapes I thought too hard about the cameras? Anyway, only time will tell which one will I choose. :-)

Currently now it is between the Olympus EVOLTE-500, Nikon D70s, Sony Alpha A100 (not so keen), and the CanonEOS 350D (Not so keen as well). I don't wish to miss mirror lock up...unless it is not so important. (But I capture plenty of long exposures...). :yawn:




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Old Aug 1, 2006, 8:58 AM   #14
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Nikon D50, canon, pentax, it dosent matter one bit. Someday you might understand that, they all do the same things. Honestly, your being rediculous, stop stressing out and buy a camera that you like, there is very little difference between current entry-level dslr's (unless you have very specific needs).

Now for lenses, 50mm is not so good on a dslr. I would NOT use that as my only, or even primary lens. The f/1.8 versions are so cheap though, and give such good results, it's kinda silly to pass them up for that reason alone. They work well for portraits, though.

What you really need is a 24mm, 28mm, or 35mm lens. The f/2 versions are generally affordable, but the cost of a f/1.4 wide angle is astronomical. Sigma makes a 30mm f/1.4 for dslr's which is affordable and known for very good quality. They let a few bad ones out here and there in typical sigma fashion, but its nothing to worry about (buy from a real dealer with a return policy, not the hairy guy in a trenchcoat on the corner). Canon 35mm f/2 is only $220 at b&h. There are so many poor zoom lenses its silly, but there arent too many bad primes. Find an affordable one of the proper focal length, check reviews to make sure its not a bad apple, then buy it and never look back.

Some ideas (B&H prices):
Pentax K1100D Body only $520 or Nikon D50 body only $550
Sigma 30mm f/1.4 $430
Total < $1000

Canon rebel XT $650
Canon 35mm f/2 $230
Total < $900

Mirror lockup is probably most important with shutter speeds between 1 second and 1/60. Longer exposures 'even out' momentary vibrations, shorted exposures wont be affected. In other words, whichever features you camera has/does-not-have you will simply work around them. You'll be doing this even with $10,000 worth of equipment, money cant buy you happiness because gear does not solve your problems.
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Old Aug 1, 2006, 9:25 AM   #15
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Some ideas (B&H prices):
Pentax K1100D Body only $520 or Nikon D50 body only $550
Sigma 30mm f/1.4 $430
Total < $1000




Ehh, do you meant the Pentax K100 or K110D??

Btw, sounds great with that nice Sigma lens

I just read a not so detailed review of the K100D. Iwasn't so impressed. (I will prefer a more professional dpreview like review).

Nikon D50 + Sigma 30mm f/1.4 = Answer

EOS 350D withatleast a sharp affordable lens will be great.Maybe I should consideryour combination.>>>

Canon rebel XT $650
Canon 35mm f/2 $230
Total < $900



Thanks.

EDIT: I read a review of the Canon 35mm f/2;a superior sharp lens with two very positive user reviews and a equally positive professional review. I think my choice is at hand IF the prices are correct (US $900 + lens)! :-):-):-)I'm almost ready...







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Old Aug 1, 2006, 7:20 PM   #16
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Please be careful about canon, not anything to do with thier products.. but the users can get a little odd. There are plenty of normal photographers using canon, but it seems like the largest portion of gear-fanatics flock to them specifically. This has the effect of creating an online frenzy that will try to convince you to invest in massively expensive gear (or at least covet it), such as well known "L-Fever".

Pentax has the oposite effect. Pentax photographers may often have to turn thier camera around and read the label to remember what brand thier equipment is.

Just be aware of the trap so you dont fall for it! The canon 35mm f/1.4 L is $1200!!!
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Old Aug 1, 2006, 7:48 PM   #17
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On a seperate post you mentioned you had decided on the Nikon D50. In this post you have wavered between two other bodies. Don't get caught up in the hype. You really need to handle all the cameras to figure out which one feels the best and is easiest for you to use. I also feel you need to rethink you're choice of going with just a prime lens. You expressed a desire to shoot landscapes and architecture. Even a 30mm is not wide enough to do this. Kit lenses get a bad rap that is completely undeserved. Sure they are not pro level and have some shortcomings, but then all lenses have some issues. Any flaws are likely not noticeable unless viewing at high magnification or large print sizes. Plus they are virtually given away with a body purchase and offer lots of flexibility. Primes have their place, primarily and portrait and macro photography, neither of which you mention as a priority.

Basically, be careful of all the reviews from users that you hear. Many don't have experience with all the various bodies and systems, and people tend to be fanatical about the gear they use.
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Old Aug 2, 2006, 12:49 AM   #18
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Please be careful about canon, not anything to do with thier products.. but the users can get a little odd. There are plenty of normal photographers using canon, but it seems like the largest portion of gear-fanatics flock to them specifically.
Well I use Canon.

And I am also a little odd, but I'm fairly sure the two are not related. :blah:

Canon has the majority of the DSLR market (70% or so), so it's not too surprising that the majority of nutters use Canon. The majority of all the groups use Canon.

I have come across a fair number of nutters using the other brands too.

Consider that photography is essentially two slightly separate hobbies, one is about taking pictures and the other is about equipment.

It is quite possible to be very good at one and quite rubbish at the other. I met someone recently who had a bag full of Canon L lenses (probably about £3000 worth in all and his pictures were pretty awful). I also know a young lass who is using a cheap 35mm film camera and hers are fantastic, and another artist friend who uses a P&S Canon S80 and her pictures are amazing. Neither of those two girls have the slightest interest in the equipment side of photography. (Though they DO need to know about aperture and shutter speed focal length, and so on, a little technical knowledge is always necessary.)

By all means get wrapped up in the technical stuff, it's fun if you're interested, especially if you have a lot of money to spend. But it won't make you a good photographer. A good photograph is made from a combination of a good photographer and good equipment, both are necessary.

Once you have your camera though don't fall into the trap of testing your lenses and pixel-peeping, put your effort into taking pictures not testing cameras.
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Old Aug 2, 2006, 7:29 AM   #19
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Once you have your camera though don't fall into the trap of testing your lenses and pixel-peeping, put your effort into taking pictures not testing cameras."
Well said
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Old Aug 2, 2006, 9:10 AM   #20
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Alright, thanksa lotfor all the useful comments you have all provided. I really appreciate them.

I am currently not in a hurry to buy my new dSLR since I will be using my own money for it. I will only have one chance to make the right choice and go for it, after that I won't be able to turn back whatsoever.

One thing is for sure;

I plan to get a constant F2.8 aperture zoom/wide angle lens at the end of this year when I pass my exam. Currently for me, the body (dSLR) is the most important consideration since "as I said earlier" I will only have one go and that's it; I won't be able to turn back anymore.

I figured out that if I could afford a dSLR body currently with enough photographicfeatures for the long run, I will be looking closely at it.

Features like a white balance fine tuning functionis important because I usually find myself in confusing lighting situation and need to tweak the WB properly (When the preset fails). Also Auto WB just doesn't handleconfusing lightingsproperly and to match my WBpreference. Custom point and shoot WB is great, but sometimes it will be better to tweak that too to getbetter preferredresults.

Next, I also need usable ISO 800 and ISO 1600 at least since I have recently begun to start shooting in low light situations containing actions and people. I know that most dSLRs have usable ISO 800 and ISO 1600. However, I will definitely need "Fully" usable ones in the sense that; they are still pleasant to look at and most importantly: good detail retention at all cost. (And my good really means good as in the Canons or certain Nikon dSLRs).

Thirdly, I prefer a dSLR with lower pixel count. I don't need anything above 8 mega-pixels at max. In fact, my max is actually 7 mega-pixels where the rest will be redundant for me. The best is 6 mega-pixels or lower since I capture a lot of photos and space could be a factor in the long run. I also experiment a lot at lower resolutions and usually keep most of the nice experiment shots, so a camera with higher resolutions will only be more redundant. Sometimes I wish I could buy the Nikon D1Hwith 2.7 million sensor photo detectors on a23.7 x 15.5 mm APS-Csensor! (Making the camera have higher performance overall):shock:Look at how clean and noise free it's images look with fantastic per pixel sharpness at 30 second long exposures (Without noise reduction). When I zoomed in onto the D1H'simages, I could clearly see their superb qualities. This is to demonstrate how "Unimportant mega-pixels are to me". I prefer quality anytime.

Finally, the camera must have a great build quality and robust design. I have bad experiences shooting on trips with my refine Sony N1 compact where it will get soiled easily and sensitive to contacts. Makes the camera awful IMO when I see dSLR owners shooting away with robustness and efficiency on tight situations. (Always ready for the shot). Controls must be at my fingertips and performance must be swift since I don't want to be waiting for the camera to respond in the mist of an action. (It has mostly been the case with my DSC-N1 compact).

I know this thread have the D50 dSLR title, but it was a cooincidence that it started on my mind first and I personally started building up from there. This seems to be the effective way to make me decide since it brought other capable dSLRs into the comparisons as well. However, now that I had stated my main criterias above, it should be clear which direction I will be taking. I don't mind starting out with any lens as long as it provides me withsharp images and with minimal optical issues since I will be planning for a main lens by year end. (This starter lens will only be temporary and as far as I can see, a prime seems to be the best choice).

I might be getting a Tamron AF 17-50mm f/2.8 SP XR Di II LD or similer lens by year end (If I pass my test)>>> http://www.photozone.de/8Reviews/len...0_28/index.htm

Thanks for your reading time and regards. (Hope you understand the situation I'm currently in and sorry for being such a difficult newbie).

Bye!

EDIT: I wonder what is the difference in WB color temperature and WB fine tuning? I always hear about Kelvin WB and etc...just curious to know how useful it actually is.

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