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View Poll Results: Wich camera is the best entry slr camera.???
Canon 400D 7 25.93%
Nikon 80D 13 48.15%
Sony Alpha 7 25.93%
Voters: 27. You may not vote on this poll

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Old Sep 1, 2006, 3:21 AM   #41
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Benjamin..

I hope you don´t think of me rudely if I ask you..... :"What kind of camera experience do you actuallyhave?"

having read your massive amount of posts lately, this is the only question that comes to my mind.
It is up to you;

If you don't like to believe what I say in here, ignore them!

I've got all my informations from various professional reviews written around. I dislike peoplewho judge the person, not the informations.

Just because I am the personthat says it all doesn't mean that the informations are false. What if a professional photographer is the one who says what I say??? I bet it will be a different storyin here.

Code:
Benjamin-

Most folks will not post this, but I will.Until you have REAL, hands on, actual shooting experience with any DSLR camera, I personally believe that you had better lessen your adamant recommendations and judgementsof DSLR cameras, that you have most probably, never touched, not alone having the experience of taking 500+ shots with.

Experience counts here in this forum.You tend to "preach" to all of us about various cameras based only on what you have read, or heard by rumor, the grapevine, or something else. Can you at least do us all a favor, and knock off the preaching, the voluminous text, and many references that mean nothing.

Just post DSLR sample photos from now on to support your assorted views. Is that asking too much. The bumbling University professor according to Benjamin.

MT
I want to know what is the intention of this post of yours??? If you don't like me to provide facts, then say so.

I know you want to tell me those because you know very well that I will have to buy a dSLR, spend a couple of months getting used to the camera, and then spend a year shooting (or longer). Obviously it will be quite asometime before I can come back here and give advices if I follow your book. :roll:I don't see the point in thiswhole thing, I have read a lot about the cameras from both professionals and extensive owner's reviews from the various sites in the globe. I know what I am talking about.

You better query those reviewers if you find my informations misleading.

Code:
The last couple of weeks have been a bombardment of tests, and comparisons that have only served to muddy the water and make buying decisions more difficult.
I think potential buyers want facts, not opinions. Many die hearted Pentax fans in here (that I am beginning to discover) are just providing relentless opinions that they themselves think are okay enough to satisfy the buyers. It is a good thing Ihave theknowledge (thanks to the)reviews or else I will also have fallen into those traps. :?

In fact it is the other way round, die hearted camera (expecially Pentax fans/owners) are simply recommending their perchases to those new buyers making them think it is the best choices out there. In fact, now the "which camera to buy" section only seems to have aggresive Pentax fans/owners around trying to convince people's thoughts. I don't see any Canon or Nikon owners doing anything like that in here so far.

Code:
ou know and I know that any of the consumer DSLR cameras will to a great job. Why let a a lot of newbies be hood winked by ken, oops I meant to say, Benjamin.

There are lots of good cameras out there. The challnge is really learning how to use those cameras well. Are you really listening? It is the skill of the photographer, not necessarily the make or model of the camera, that makes the REAL difference.
You think I don't know that??? I hope tosay it again once more>>>

Obviously all the dSLRs are great cameras, but please acknowledge that we buyers (includes me as well)want to be getting the best our money can afford, If you like your Pentax then fine, go and enjoy. But we buyers will still want the best our money can afford - period.

"All the dSLRs are great" applies well in general, but it doesn't make things any easier (if more confusing) for a buyer searching for a camera or dSLR.

So, if all the cameras/dSLRs are great, I can then close my eyes and pick any one of them...I don't even need to read a review, just go out and throw a dart at a model at the shop window and get that one if it is a dSLR.

Do understand that buyers have certain specification in mind. (I certainly have) Don't only think that "All the dSLRs are great" is the only key for us.

Since the key is to use a camera well, I should be choosing a dSLR that matches my criteria and use it well.

Code:
I have said it before, and PMed him about it. A lot of "web-learning" with no practical point of reference makes for annoyance, not information.

Ira
If you think that all I have said was un-true, then feel free to correct everything I have ever said in this forum to the correct answers you seems to be having.

Code:
I too am tired of all the opinions suddenly becoming end all advice and fact around here. It's getting to the point of mass confusion. I really feel sorry for a person coming into a thread like this only expecting reasonable advice and guidance.
Where are the "opinions suddenly becoming end all advice and fact around here"???

Code:
It's getting to the point of mass confusion. I really feel sorry for a person coming into a thread like this only expecting reasonable advice and guidance.
It's getting to the point of mass confusion because some people are not willing to admit facts proven by professionals. It is those people that are misleading because they are bias towards what they are having. They cannot stand reviews gettingat the truths. :roll:

Please don't mislead people any longer. Show proper test results to avoid confusions.

Code:
Instead theyare being toldwhat to buy and sometimes theirindividual wants and needs haven't even been established.Do some of these people giving curt advice realize the ramifications of telling someone directly what to get and it not working out for them. While it's no tragedy for most, I'll bet some people aren't in the financial position to buy a mistake.
Suggestions, there are always suggestions. Model A or model B seems the suitable ones...how can you give advice without giving any suggestions???

Pentax owners are always quick to display a list of Pentax branded lens and a Pentax branded dSLR whenever they are in the position to give an advice. Very limiting in my opinion, I will prefer someone who have knowledge of various dSLRs to give advice. Like that a wider selectioncan be made.

Code:
I'll bet some people aren't in the financial position to buy a mistake.
Exackly, and you know it. Good! :roll:

Code:
I have no problem with someone giving strong recommendations to someone after the person looking for information makes clear what they are looking for, but to just tell buy the XRZ007Cobra1000 because they happen to think it is the best thing since sliced bread is just plain wrong and negligent. Sometimes it happens immoderately after the personasks what is the best camera? The worst part is when it comes from someone who has barelylearned to use a camera.
I really hate people who tells me that you are not in the position to give an advice simply because you don't owned all ten dSLRs. :?

So I guess everyone must own every dSLR to give an advice??? Don't be ridiculous.

That is what reviews (expecially extensive professional ones) are for. To give you plenty of solid informations about various cameras or dSLRs without having you buy all of them! :?The Pentax dSLR owners seems to only know a lotabout their dSLRs and they only give advice on that.It is very limiting in my opinion when ever they give such advice as buyers might not know the other choices out there; and itwill bedifficult ifthey get bias. (Which they will often seems to be) - Imagine you have a Pentax and love it so much...all you can advice upon is that and it can seems bias that way. Sometimes we need people who have an acceptable level of knowledge of the other cams as well. (Expecially somebody who is neutral to the cameras) Not an owner of one of them or is an owner of most of them.








































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Old Sep 1, 2006, 5:31 AM   #42
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"It is up to you;

If you don't like to believe what I say in here, ignore them!

I've got all my informations from various professional reviews written around. I dislike peoplewho judge the person, not the informations.

Just because I am the personthat says it all doesn't mean that the informations are false. What if a professional photographer is the one who says what I say??? I bet it will be a different storyin here."





























See you have to learn the name of the game!

As a social scientist myself ... Its 50% the person writing theinformation as it is the information itself. It´s easier for me to judge bias about a statement when i know something about the person writing it. ( eventhough people could pose to be an imposter on the internet, but thats a differet story )

You keep going on about objective knowledge, but in my book anything that has been touched by man is subject to interpretation and therefore not objective. Knowing something about the man who touched it will give me some ideas on how i want to interpret his/her interpretations.

That brings us back to the main argument, your input being helpful or not!

I agree tests are great in that they show the extremes and ideal capabilities of a certain camera. But something happens once you leave the test lab, a sphere were skill/experience actually does make a difference. THis is whereour ways depart! I´m not asking you to handle all cameras in order to give an opinion, but at least handling one of them would give your opinion more integrity.

A word of advice would be to cool down, just 10 minutes instead of writing 4 angry replies. Your more than welcome to write me a PM




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Old Sep 1, 2006, 5:59 AM   #43
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In fact it is the other way round, die hearted camera (expecially Pentax fans/owners) are simply recommending their perchases to those new buyers making them think it is the best choices out there. In fact, now the "which camera to buy" section only seems to have aggresive Pentax fans/owners around trying to convince people's thoughts. I don't see any Canon or Nikon owners doing anything like that in here so far.
Now see what we mean by "everything is subjective" ?

Simply by posting that "all options should be left open", it is interpreted by you as "you should buy a Pentax".

I have recommended Nikon and Canon cameras on this part of the forums as much as I have recommended a Pentax.
When someone asks advice about a camera, the first thing I look at is what they'll be using it for and how compact the camera should be. According to that information I'll see which camera fits the bill best in my opinion.

it's the same way with reviews. First off, even "professional" photographers are human beings like you and me, all with a preference of their own. Look at the difference between steve's review of any camera and the review on dpreview. They will present the same facts, yet have a different, subjective conclusion. either "I liked the camera" or "I did not".

You say the buyers want facts. true, but there's a limit to the facts. The facts are the specifications of the camera. What will they tell you? They will tell you what kind of camera you're looking at.
When I was shopping for a DSLR. Or even now when I'm looking for a lens, I don't read reviews & intense tests, I will surf to a webshop and look at the user opinions there. What's important to me is first hand experience with the product. Only then can you get a glimpse of what the product might be like when you have it in your hands.


Noone is trying to get you to buy a Pentax. You came on here for help, and people are trying to help you by telling you what their experience is.
Obviously with people who shoot with a Pentax camera it will be that camera they're referring to. Simply because of the fact that we're not in a position to judge the other cameras.
The only ones who are in that position are those who have had first hand experience with the cameras. people like Sarah. She is not a fanatic pentax owner as you describe her. Comparing dslrs and helping starters with them is her job. If there 's anyone you can trust about giving you an honest opinion, it will be Sarah.
Does that eman she's right? HELL NO. Noone's "right". You're not. I'm not.

If you want a simple and cold procedure to determine your camera, here's one:

1. Find a camera you think you'd like on the web.
2. Do some research about it to answer the basic questions: "what can this camera do?"
3. Ask people who have the camera if it is good value, meaning that it will last longer than 2 hours on the field.

if yes: you got a good camera. go to step 4.
if no: go to step 1.

4. if you can, try out the camera yourself. Hold it. Look trough the viewfinder. Take a few pictures.

Satisfied? Don't want to let the camera go? -> take it home!

step 5.: START TAKING PICTURES.

It's as simple as that really...

TDN
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Old Sep 1, 2006, 7:12 AM   #44
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If you want a simple and cold procedure to determine your camera, here's one:
Sounds interesting...

Code:
1. Find a camera you think you'd like on the web.
I happened to like a lot of cameras>>> (I shall state all first in full name)

SONY CYBER-SHOT DSC-R1

SONY ALPHA A100

NIKON D70s

NIKON D50

CANON EOS 350D

PENTAX IST DS2

PENTAX K100D

OLYMPUS EVOLT E-500

Code:
2. Do some research about it to answer the basic questions: "what can this camera do?"
SONY CYBER-SHOT DSC-R1: Captures images at 24 mm. All in one solution with the great quality 24-120 mm C.Z. lens. Can capture images at awkward angles with the vary angle live previewLCD. Can capture spy shots (No bad intentions). Can capture silently.

SONY ALPHA A100: Can have plenty of goodies/settings to play around with. Nice design and 230,000 pixelLCD screen. Dust shake with anti-static coating. Super Steady Shot. I wish it has a pentaprism TTL viewfinder.

NIKON D70s: Can capture fast action shots with thefast max 1/8000 secs shutter speed. Can use all the ISO range from 200-1600. Very robust camera.Rather interesting camera.

NIKON D50: Can get a better lens. Fully usable ISO range. Small and compact. Great dynamic range.

CANON EOS 350D: Great image quality. Rather complete camera.

PENTAX IST DS2: Large and bright pentaprism TTL viewfinder with 11 focus points. Nice design and LCD screen.

PENTAX K100D: CCD shake reduction feature. Fully usable ISO 200 - 3200 from what I can see. One of the better pentamirror TTL viewfinders around with 11 focus points. Nice LCD screen and design.

OLYMPUS EVOLT E-500: Plenty of functions to play around with. Nice and crisp LCD screen. Pentaprism TTL viewfinder. Nice design. Super Sonic Wave Filter.

Code:
3. Ask people who have the camera if it is good value, meaning that it will last longer than 2 hours on the field.
So how is it guys? (Just kidding)

Code:
4. if you can, try out the camera yourself. Hold it. Look trough the viewfinder. Take a few pictures.

Satisfied? Don't want to let the camera go? -> take it home!
That will be on the day of purchase. (Ha ha)

Code:
step 5.: START TAKING PICTURES.
I am already taking pictures with my SONY CYBER-SHOT DSC-N1. :rollK.D.)

Code:
It's as simple as that really...
Are you sure??? Does it look that simple? :-)

Anyway, I have more or less decided to go with the Pentax K100D. (I stated this in the other thread)
























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Old Sep 1, 2006, 11:47 AM   #45
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Wow... a lot of answers and suggestions thanks

But dont fight, i think all can comment about wich camera is better,

The really fight now is coming about the cameras, where owners and photographers reviews with more details the camera.

And all the cameras are good .... maybe but not all.


Now i am thinking to buy:
Nikon D80
18-200 VR

Thanks a lot and please stop the fight
:sad: :P:?
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Old Sep 1, 2006, 11:54 AM   #46
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BenjaminXYZ wrote:
Quote:
Code:
Benjamin..

I hope you don´t think of me rudely if I ask you..... :"What kind of camera experience do you actuallyhave?"

having read your massive amount of posts lately, this is the only question that comes to my mind.
It is up to you;

If you don't like to believe what I say in here, ignore them!

I've got all my informations from various professional reviews written around. I dislike peoplewho judge the person, not the informations.

Just because I am the personthat says it all doesn't mean that the informations are false. What if a professional photographer is the one who says what I say??? I bet it will be a different storyin here.

Code:
Benjamin-

Most folks will not post this, but I will.Until you have REAL, hands on, actual shooting experience with any DSLR camera, I personally believe that you had better lessen your adamant recommendations and judgementsof DSLR cameras, that you have most probably, never touched, not alone having the experience of taking 500+ shots with.

Experience counts here in this forum.You tend to "preach" to all of us about various cameras based only on what you have read, or heard by rumor, the grapevine, or something else. Can you at least do us all a favor, and knock off the preaching, the voluminous text, and many references that mean nothing.

Just post DSLR sample photos from now on to support your assorted views. Is that asking too much. The bumbling University professor according to Benjamin.

MT
I want to know what is the intention of this post of yours??? If you don't like me to provide facts, then say so.

I know you want to tell me those because you know very well that I will have to buy a dSLR, spend a couple of months getting used to the camera, and then spend a year shooting (or longer). Obviously it will be quite asometime before I can come back here and give advices if I follow your book. :roll:I don't see the point in thiswhole thing, I have read a lot about the cameras from both professionals and extensive owner's reviews from the various sites in the globe. I know what I am talking about.

You better query those reviewers if you find my informations misleading.

Code:
The last couple of weeks have been a bombardment of tests, and comparisons that have only served to muddy the water and make buying decisions more difficult.
I think potential buyers want facts, not opinions. Many die hearted Pentax fans in here (that I am beginning to discover) are just providing relentless opinions that they themselves think are okay enough to satisfy the buyers. It is a good thing Ihave theknowledge (thanks to the)reviews or else I will also have fallen into those traps. :?

In fact it is the other way round, die hearted camera (expecially Pentax fans/owners) are simply recommending their perchases to those new buyers making them think it is the best choices out there. In fact, now the "which camera to buy" section only seems to have aggresive Pentax fans/owners around trying to convince people's thoughts. I don't see any Canon or Nikon owners doing anything like that in here so far.

Code:
ou know and I know that any of the consumer DSLR cameras will to a great job. Why let a a lot of newbies be hood winked by ken, oops I meant to say, Benjamin.

There are lots of good cameras out there. The challnge is really learning how to use those cameras well. Are you really listening? It is the skill of the photographer, not necessarily the make or model of the camera, that makes the REAL difference.
You think I don't know that??? I hope tosay it again once more>>>

Obviously all the dSLRs are great cameras, but please acknowledge that we buyers (includes me as well)want to be getting the best our money can afford, If you like your Pentax then fine, go and enjoy. But we buyers will still want the best our money can afford - period.

"All the dSLRs are great" applies well in general, but it doesn't make things any easier (if more confusing) for a buyer searching for a camera or dSLR.

So, if all the cameras/dSLRs are great, I can then close my eyes and pick any one of them...I don't even need to read a review, just go out and throw a dart at a model at the shop window and get that one if it is a dSLR.

Do understand that buyers have certain specification in mind. (I certainly have) Don't only think that "All the dSLRs are great" is the only key for us.

Since the key is to use a camera well, I should be choosing a dSLR that matches my criteria and use it well.

Code:
I have said it before, and PMed him about it. A lot of "web-learning" with no practical point of reference makes for annoyance, not information.

Ira
If you think that all I have said was un-true, then feel free to correct everything I have ever said in this forum to the correct answers you seems to be having.

Code:
I too am tired of all the opinions suddenly becoming end all advice and fact around here. It's getting to the point of mass confusion. I really feel sorry for a person coming into a thread like this only expecting reasonable advice and guidance.
[color=red]Where are the "opinions suddenly becoming end all advice and fact around here"???

Code:
It's getting to the point of mass confusion. I really feel sorry for a person coming into a thread like this only expecting reasonable advice and guidance.
[color=red]It's getting to the point of mass confusion because some people are not willing to admit facts proven by professionals. It is those people that are misleading because they are bias towards what they are having. They cannot stand reviews gettingat the truths. :roll:

Please don't mislead people any longer. Show proper test results to avoid confusions.

Code:
Instead theyare being toldwhat to buy and sometimes theirindividual wants and needs haven't even been established.Do some of these people giving curt advice realize the ramifications of telling someone directly what to get and it not working out for them. While it's no tragedy for most, I'll bet some people aren't in the financial position to buy a mistake.
[color=red]Suggestions, there are always suggestions. Model A or model B seems the suitable ones...how can you give advice without giving any suggestions???

Pentax owners are always quick to display a list of Pentax branded lens and a Pentax branded dSLR whenever they are in the position to give an advice. Very limiting in my opinion, I will prefer someone who have knowledge of various dSLRs to give advice. Like that a wider selectioncan be made.

Code:
I'll bet some people aren't in the financial position to buy a mistake.
[color=red]Exackly, and you know it. Good! :roll:

Code:
I have no problem with someone giving strong recommendations to someone after the person looking for information makes clear what they are looking for, but to just tell buy the XRZ007Cobra1000 because they happen to think it is the best thing since sliced bread is just plain wrong and negligent. Sometimes it happens immoderately after the personasks what is the best camera? The worst part is when it comes from someone who has barelylearned to use a camera.
I really hate people who tells me that you are not in the position to give an advice simply because you don't owned all ten dSLRs. :?

So I guess everyone must own every dSLR to give an advice??? Don't be ridiculous.

That is what reviews (expecially extensive professional ones) are for. To give you plenty of solid informations about various cameras or dSLRs without having you buy all of them! :?The Pentax dSLR owners seems to only know a lotabout their dSLRs and they only give advice on that.It is very limiting in my opinion when ever they give such advice as buyers might not know the other choices out there; and itwill bedifficult ifthey get bias. (Which they will often seems to be) - Imagine you have a Pentax and love it so much...all you can advice upon is that and it can seems bias that way. Sometimes we need people who have an acceptable level of knowledge of the other cams as well. (Expecially somebody who is neutral to the cameras) Not an owner of one of them or is an owner of most of them.
Benjamin, the areas highlighted in red are sections of your post withyour responses and include my comments from a prior post that was not posted directly to you.

If you happen to fit some of my generalizations, or misconstrued anything I said as directed to you, that cannot be helped. My comments were my opinions of what has happened to some of the "What camera to buy" threads lately in contrast to when I first started coming here. It is my right to to expressdisappoint with the content of any thread at any given time as long as I do so in a gentlemanly like manor.

In this and prior posts you misquote, misinterpret, put words in people's mouths. In prior posts you have been confronted by myself and others, and had issues like I describe brought to your attention and when confronted or corrected, you end up apologizing for jumping the gun, but then later do it all over again.. Why not avoid jumping the gun? You just might find that it will help getting along and playing well with the others here in this and other forums.

What I find disturbing is that yourresponses that I highlighted in red within this post include comments that are accusing me of misleading people. Even more disturbing is your use of the word"hate" andtelling me"Don't be ridiculous" ortelling me to show test results.

I choose not to dignify any of your comments with a direct response, though I find most of your comments out of line, inaccurate and often irrelevant to the content and ororiginal intent of the post was.


As far as I am concerned, this has gone far enough andask that you no longer post to me or comment about any of my current and future posts directly or indirectly. If you do post to me, I will ask one of the moderators to step in. I will not respond to any of your posts including responses to this one and in fact I may even avoid threads in which you frequent.

Just to be clear, you obviously have the right to respond to this post, although I would prefer you don't. The reason I feel you have the right is that I posted directly to you and of course you have the right to defend your position. Should you choose to post, please avoid the hostility.
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Old Sep 1, 2006, 2:12 PM   #47
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<soapbox rant>

I hate to get involved in this, but you guys have been pretty harsh on Ben. I realize the facts and opinions he has been stating are not necessarily from personal experience, but many of us take this stance with camera's we have not used. It's important to mention these are things we've heard/read, rather than have firsthand experience with. I'm sure Ben means well. He's been very honest and for the most part correct with his posts. I just get the impression he's been a little too excited about this whole endeavor in buying a dSLR and helping others learn the things he has learned. Because of this, he seems to comes off as if he knows things he has never proven firsthand.

People coming to these forums should always take other peoples posts with a grain of salt. EVEN PROFESSIONAL REVIEWS!! Every camera is different and every person is different (professional or otherwise!). This is why, even though Sarah is "professional" (yes, she tells us this in just about every post), even her posts need to be taken with a bit of caution.

Forgive me for singling her out, but you guys all seem to hold her in such high regard. And yet I have seen posts from her that were even worse (as in misleading) than any of Ben's.

Case in point is a recent post of pictures from dSLR's in some thread. 2 out of the 6 pictures posted looked extremely good (K100D and 5D). The rest were extremely bad pictures (D50, DS, 7D, E-300). So bad, in fact, that it was questionable why they were even posted. I realize she was only trying to help. But, for someone who claims in nearly every post to be a professional, there should be care taken to make sure every post is accurate and helpful. Her pictures made some of the dSLR's in question look bad and there was no explanation (until after people made a stink about it) as to why there were good pictures vs. REALLY bad ones.

In another case, I got a response as to how much better the K100D is compared to all of it's competition. The reasons I was given were numerous, but many of the comparisons were being done in comparison to Pentax's old camera's (ie. DL), of which were never in question in the thread in the first place. Other "benefits" were compared to other camera's only where it suited the K100D, but this wasn't the case in comparison with ALL the competition, just 1 or 2 of them (but this wasn't stated!). ex: Why say the K100D has "faster focusing" if it is in relation to the DL and not the camera being asked about (D50)? Is the K100D really faster focusing than the D50? Is there proof one way or the other? In my research, they are so close it's hard to tell as "fact" one way or the other.

So, as you see...we are all human. We all make mistakes. We all are human and the things we say can be misconstrued on the internet very easily, considering the diversity of personalities here.

The fact that this thread (and many others leading up to this one) has brought about so much conflict and childish behavior is a good indication that we ALL need to take a step back and realize we're all here to learn and help each other. Ben means well. But, if you have a concern with any of his posts, reply and question it so that everyone can read the threads and make their own opinions. Anyone coming here to help and learn needs to know that what they read is to be taken lightly and processed for their own knowledge. If they take ANYTHING as fact without looking into it further, that is their own fault.

And Ben...it's true...you DO need to be careful about your words on these forums. I personally haven't had any issue with your posts. But, as I read them, I get the impression you are a professional photographer, which is not the case. I think this is what people are getting aggravated about.

There is nothing wrong with stating your knowledge though (which is how I take your posts).

</soapbox rant>
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Old Sep 1, 2006, 4:08 PM   #48
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I agree with the previous post about being too harsh towards Benjamin. I'm also confused at the moment. The are so many great cameras now and many have great features others don't have. I think you can rely on reviewers to a certain degree. Benjamin read alot on the subject and I think he learned alot from the lecture. As this is a Forum with the name "What Camera Should I Buy?" there are people who have limited time to get all the necessary info on which to base their decisions and ask others to help out with their opinions and knowledge. Benjamin helped me by pointing out certain things, like that you can use the Rebel with Canon L lenses. To me he appeared as if he'd work for Sony in the beginning of this thread but hey...guess he was just excited about the new Sony.
I also thought this would be THE camera when I read about it for the first time until I saw the high ISO noise level. It's quite confusing and if your on a very limited budget you have to decide carefully what fits your needs best. For me that is the ability to get the most possibilities with least amount of money and without the need to upgrade in the next couple of years. I love night photography and indoor photography under poor lighting conditions primarily. I want to point, shoot and run when I take pictures of people under quickly changing lighting conditions. This demands for a camera that can handle noise up to high ISO levels well and a zoom lense from 70 or smaller to 200 or bigger. I also want the ability to crop only portions out of images and use them as objects for stuff like matte painting in photoshop which is also a hobby of mine which demands for at least 8 MP. I have 1500 euros atm, so what can I get? First I thought about the new Canon Rebel, but actually it has nothing that would I benefit from over the previous Rebel. At the moment I'm also aimed at the D80 with the 18-200mm zoom lense but there is another drawback when I get this one because I'd like to extend the zoom range up to 400mm and it can't be used with an extender. Which means I'd have to get yet another lense later anyway. Price wise the D80 with the lense would be exactly €1500. The alternative would be a used 20D for €700 with the 28-135mm IS lense for €400 which would leave me some spare money, so I could save another €600, get the 70-200mm 4 IS lense for €1000 later and after that an 2x extender which would give be an overall range at better optical quality from 28-400mm but then I don't have the nifty D80 features like auto ISO which would really useful.

You see: you can't just get anything and be happy. Everything has to be carefully examined and estimated :-)
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Old Sep 1, 2006, 8:47 PM   #49
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pixelwhore wrote:
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First I thought about the new Canon Rebel, but actually it has nothing that would I benefit from over the previous Rebel. At the moment I'm also aimed at the D80 with the 18-200mm zoom lense but there is another drawback when I get this one because I'd like to extend the zoom range up to 400mm and it can't be used with an extender. Which means I'd have to get yet another lense later anyway. Price wise the D80 with the lense would be exactly €1500. The alternative would be a used 20D for €700 with the 28-135mm IS lense for €400 which would leave me some spare money, so I could save another €600, get the 70-200mm 4 IS lense for €1000 later and after that an 2x extender which would give be an overall range at better optical quality from 28-400mm but then I don't have the nifty D80 features like auto ISO which would really useful.

You see: you can't just get anything and be happy. Everything has to be carefully examined and estimated :-)
A good used 20D sounds like a good plan. A friend of mine has one, only one complaint, he has the extra battery grip and if you hold it by the battery pack (as you would with a portrait shot) and there is a heavy lens attached the camera would sometimes cut out. Probably just a quirk with his camera. It is fast with low noise, a good choice for your intended use.

Ira
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Old Sep 2, 2006, 3:30 AM   #50
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I really want to thank swgod98& pixelwhorefor being so understanding towards me. I really appreciate you two.

It did took me quite a time to read through those two fantastic post! :-)

Regards.

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