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Old Jun 25, 2005, 9:46 AM   #71
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:roll:Canon won't authorize this, but the heads can be taken out (that's always been true), AND cleaned. I bought a cheapy for my dad that was a display model and it never had a sample printed. The heads clogged on the Canon and I found several resources on the net, such as here is how to clean the heads. After I followed the simple instructions I found, (first let me say, NO colors or black were coming out), ALL of the colors and black printed, aligned perfectly and I had a new printer. With how Canon makes their semi-conductor type printhead, with it's smaller nozzles, more consistent drolpet (1 pl now at 9600x2400 dpi), you can't go wrong. Even in the i9900, it does a 2pl drop at 4800x2400 dpi with 6144 print nozzles. The BCI-7 series will be here soon enough and right now prints on a Canon, framed should last 35-40 years, in an album, 100 years. The current printer line will accept the new inks and called the Chroma-Life100, is rated at 100years framed. Also, with what someone asked about a full 8.5"x11" dye sub coming out, Olympus has made one, for years now!!! it's that black model that sits upright. Remember the Epson is really an R800 made into a wide format machine, same technologies from the R800 (over a year old), and only really 6 colors. The two blacks do NOT fire at the same time as one is for glossy paper and the other for matte. Also, the gloss optimizer is not a color. So, if you count them, it's 6 colors. The i9900 has 8 seperate, individual colors and has claimed to produce the gamut closely related to positive film. Also, no chip on the cartridge to regulate ink (like epson and HP). For the one that talked about margin, they are correct, everything is margin driven. And where they (HP) really get customers is on their $35 or more ink cartridges. Take some time one day and looks at the amount (ml) quantity of ink in their tri-color cartrdiges and don't tell me they're not making the dough on ink. Also, if anyone defends that, then what do you think about HP having their lower line of printers, lets say there is a model at Best Buy right now for $59, but a FULL set of ink costs almost $75!!! What does that say about a company when they are charging less for the printer and more for the ink. Does LEXMARK come to mind? LOL just kidding. I think HP makes a solid "laser" product and is the poster child when it comes to office lasers (Canon is moving up there too, quick). Can't we just all get along, Geez! LOL 12 years ago, when we took pictures with out still film cameras, sent them into the lab, picked them up at the lab or pharmacy, THAT IS WHAT WE were STUCK WITH! LOL, did we complain about color gamut and accurary then? But most of us loved those prints (although they were not perfect).
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Old Jun 25, 2005, 11:09 AM   #72
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I've had my HP 8750 for a while now and I've printed all size prints. I've printed over75 8.5x11's for my art sample books andabout 25 13x19's, some of which are being matted and framed for sale.

Theoutputfrom this printer is uniformly excellent. The colors are beautiful and the color profiles are spot on perfect. No adjustments necessary. Everyone who has seen the prints I've madehave been nothing short of very impressed with the quality, and that includes my framer who has been in the art business for over 25 years.

When I was in the market for an archival printer Canon did not have a competitive product and Epson had a reputation for clogging problems I didn't need to find out about. I've been using Canon camera's for 30 years so it should be obvious I like Canon products but they just didn't have the right printer at the right time for me.

Maybe in the future I'll switch but at this point I couldn't be happier with the HP. Do I wish it had larger individual ink carts? Of course I do, but nothing is perfect.

There isno product that issuperior to all competiters in all area's. If there was such a product they'd put everyone else out of business. You have to pick and choose the virtues you value, AT THE TIME YOUR BUYING. Product bashingcreates a lot of heatand very little light. If your happy with what you have, terrific, if not buy something else. I'm happy!!


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Old Jun 25, 2005, 12:13 PM   #73
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I couldnt agree more with you.....I know you really like your 8750 as much as I enjoy my R1800 and no to the other guy you did not make a mistake buying an R1800 any more than you would have buying an HP....

These guys come on here and spew marketng crap and Canon futures....they use words like "should" and judge a printer by the number of returns!!! What a lark!!!


Just because sales are down doesnt mean that a BMW or Mercedes is a crap car, they are still awesome...

What you are seeing is many people having digital cameras now running down to best buy NOT KNOWING WHAT THEY NEED and talk to guys like ISAPS and the like and go home, print and are happy....they dont know the difference and dont care. All they know is they dont have to stand in line at Walmart or Costco.

How many Canon prints line the halls of fine are museums on Canon paper and ink??????????????????????????????? Hmmmmmmmm!!!!!

How many of these consumers have really looked into what is really available out there?? What this does do is MAKE the printer companies profitable...if you have good marketing you can sell a piece of junk.

Most of the people on these forums have gone a lot farther than the run of the mill Best Buy customer....

Like Tony said product bashing like you guys are doing will HURT and not help..
if Canon delivers with a new printer sure we would consider it, but it will based on its capabilites, NOT MARKETING CRAP like you are pushing so hard, return rates, etc....

Maybe you guys are getting a bonus for each Canon printer you sell????

Get a life


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Old Jun 25, 2005, 11:49 PM   #74
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I wondering what you think of the idea of using compatible ink cartridges in the epson r1800 I have order some from http://www.inkjetcartridge.com/r800bundle.html

also is it passable to get the head cloged so bad you can't get it uncloged

I am justconcerned I don't want to ruining it.
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Old Jun 26, 2005, 2:05 AM   #75
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Well adydula, you really have no clue about retail sales of printers! I have ran two stores and now I work in the store that hasbeen 2nd best Digital Imaging department in the whole Best Buy company. Now since Best Buy has no competitors in Digital Imaging in the whole world that makes my store the second to best Digital Imaging retailer in the whole world. I thought I would let you know that my store averages 5 20D, 3 D70,1-2 mark II 1D, and 1-2 D100 sales a month! Please tell me of any other group including your pro shops that can average that! I really hate people that come here and say that Canon must give use a kick back for selling their products since in my whole life the only three companies in the printer/camera market to offer kickbacks to employees have been HP, Lexmark, and Fuji why because they know that people aren't buying their products because we know their product is junk and so they try to make us sell their product by offering us crap in return.Also, I feel that you do not understand that I as well as the fellow gentleman that worked for Best Buy are showing is this, Best Buy spends millions on research and unlike all your test benches that are paid for by companies that products are tested by the same test bench. We are paid for by money given to us by consumers who shop with us,who trust us and so we have no side when we test printers,cameras,TVs,etc. I wishthat you would not say that we are paid for by companies when all we are doingis showing truth that has not been tainted by the companies themselves.Also, if you think sales do not show how wella company is doing and who well loved their products are you need your head examined! Does GM, Sony, Westinghouse, Ford, Disney, Deawoo,and even Circuit City ring a bell.Now please, don't be a fool who is going to tell me that the Gov't is to blame for their recent failure in business! It is all because they made products or sold service that people did not want or they made junk products! I have spent my life in the Private business and will say that we the Consumer are what runs a company, so Business 101 if you provide a want (product not needed to survive)that nobody wants your company fails. How many people do you talk to a day that hate something they purchased from you? Because I must talk to at least 2a day many coming from our competitors who sold based on those kickbacks you think run us. I really want you to do better research on company sales before you spew crap about cars and think this makes you a pro! I own high end European cars too! Trust me they have better sales reports and earnings per quarter to ratio size then Ford or GM! Also know that Toyota is the largest car company and sold the most carslast year! Please get your facts straight before you say this to other people who don't know that you have no clue what you are talking about. We have a term called "Smart Friend", which means that we help the customer make smart choices, you are notbeinga"Smart Friend" to all of the peoplereading these reviews.Please stop following back and saying sales have nothing to do with product quality because my friends and I at work can't stop laughing atyour words. Thank you, I now know why I stopped using this forum, I think it has a lot to do with people like you! Back to talking with pros that do research on other more creditable sites. Have fun, please stay away from retail salesand teaching business/economic lawsfor the common good of man kind.
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Old Jun 26, 2005, 9:00 AM   #76
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:roll:I agree withaudibeara6. So if adydulais correct, what would happen with Mercedes if their sales were down and they lost an additional 22% of the market share over a three year time span? I wouldn't say that their cars are crap, but perhaps they're not doing something right? And perhaps other car companies are doing better, currently? That's the point. HP fired their CEO a few months ago? Why? Because it had everything to do with their sales, and sales reflect satisfaction, returns, ect. By the way, as having worked at Best Buy in the past, to further what Audibeara6 said, THEY do not work on commission. Their sell what they sell. If their sell and HP, they're told to add on ink and paper, UP THE MARGIN. If they sell Lexmark, same thing...and it goes on. If they sell Canon, sure, add on ink and paper. And I still don't understand how someone is calling much of the information put here as "marketing" crap. Perhaps that person did NOT read the documents at the links I provided. The first documents Canon's technolgies and second, the ability of their printers to read a wider color space (gaumut) than most. Perhaps, is those documents are marketing crap and a bunch of bull, then somone should challenge it and sue them. But hey...when that term comes to mind, HP and Lexmark, and now Epson have been sued a handful of times in just the last 5 years. A couple suits are pending right now (even class action status), and this is over claims about their ink cartridges, and those wonderful "computer chips" on them. Canon has never been sued over claims about ink cartridges, printing speeds or output claims. There is a lot to be said when a printer company makes a printer, and sells it for $59 when a full set of the ink it takes costs around $78! What does that say about the quality of the printer? Anyways, again everyone is allowed to have an opinion. Constructive criticism is different from bashing and the sales figures speak for themselves. A good products speaks for itself and when consumer opinions actually match those of Steve's site, PC Magazine, Shutterbug, Consumber Reports and Cnet, then that's a good sign. I got ripped earlier becuase I said that Canon gets high marks on Cnet, but I guess what the person didn't know that ripped on me, was that I was referring to the USER opinions and what the overall score was on the product from those ratings. Now's that's real data. Can't we just all get along? lol

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Old Jun 26, 2005, 3:23 PM   #77
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hmmm. this discussion is not the most unbiased, objective one i've ever seen... as i'm on the brick of ordering an a3 borderless (guess that rules out the designjet) printer i'm of course interested in facts.
many people tend to praise the printer they're most comfortably with and tend to disregard printers of companies they had bad experience with in the past. this does not necessarily mean that this recommended printer (will be) without problems in the future. looking for those possible problems i did indeed find some and would very much like to hear one of you experts' and longtime users' opinion on them:
quite a few people (in this and other forums) complain about the canon i9900/9950's banding - especially in the last inch of borderless prints. how true is this?
the epson r1800 is said to clog less than older epson, though after not being used for a few days might do. really?
the hp8750 might not be the cheapest. did anyone keep track of his/her prints and cartridges?
your comments are highly appreciated!
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Old Jun 26, 2005, 5:33 PM   #78
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I have been tempted by the Epson 1800 - however, I have had an R800 for over a year and have had enormous problems with dark prints and colour flow with this..I calibrate with Spyder and have used PrintFix to build my own profiles as well as using the Epson ICC profiles.... it's been an ongoing struggle and one which is well reported with the R800 on numerous forums

On the strength of the likely similarity between the 1800 and the R800, I am NOT going to buy the 1800 - I don't need another problem printer to make my life difficult - I fancy going for a Canon 9900 (or waiting for the next upgrade) or the HP8750

Much as the R800 is fantastic when it behaves....somtimes life doesn't need to be that difficult.. for more info on dark prints with the R800 see


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Old Jun 26, 2005, 7:05 PM   #79
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:roll:I have not seen banding on the Canon i9900 at all. I guess that it may depending on the paper used though. With all Canon and Epson papers I have never noticed any banding. I have also used Ilford, Konika-Minolta and Red River. Banding would be evident with HP and Kodak paper, but for one HP paper isn't recommended for much except HP. If you're experiencing a banding issue on the Canon i9900/9950 and the print head has been aligned and is clean, then the head may be bad, but in the past 6 years with Canon, I have not had a print head go bad - YES one or two colors have clogged with some of the print nozzles, but I clean them myself. With the manner in which their print head is actually made (through a semiconductor process), it's virtually impossible to break a print head through normal use. After I had cleaned a customer's machine that would not print at all, it was fine; it did an auto alignment and printed it perfectly; note this was after 8 months. I am not sure why some prints have banded on the last few lines of a print, but I have noticed that with one picture of mine, it comes up - upside down in the software; if I flip it, it bands a little at the end. If I print it upside down (it's a portrait, it doesn't matter, really), it prints out without any banding. A third party company makes Epson type cartridges that are called "cleaning" cartridges that you can run through the machine becuase the Epson print head does NOT come out of the machine. This is a reason that I like the Canon print head - because if needed, I can take it out. Guess what folks? the NEW large format HP printer that just came out - THEY TOO admit to the possibility of nozzles clogging in the print head, I was reading their manual today in the store (we put one out on display), and it has a section on cleaning the print head if the user noticies colors printing really light or not at all, or showing a lot of banding.As far as HP, we have noticed that using the printers for demos, that we go through a lot more HP cartridges than Epson or Canon. So in our experience the individual ink tanks make sense. I mean, even if somone disagrees with that, have you looked at several of the HP catridges and how many ML of ink they have in them lately? Several of their cartridges have like 8ml in them - and that needs to be divided among THREE colors! Wow, for $24.
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Old Jun 26, 2005, 11:10 PM   #80
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The day helll freezes over will be the day I trust a Best Buy salesperson for advice on a printer!!!!

You have got to be kidding!!!

Thousands of people coming to Best Buy to because you think your the worlds expert on printing!!

And thanks for sharing the sales numbers for the Canon Cameras, why do I care?

Where are those museum quality 'archival' prints....what was that museum again??
Maybe its in Best Buy Car stereo department, next to the audiophiles boom box section.

I have YET to meet a really a qualified rep in BestBuy or CompUSA (see I am not just bashing Best Buy)...

Maybe you guys really do know something, but just because you have a factory repair manual doesnt make you a print expert!!!

How many el cheopo point and shoots are sold, in contrast to Canon 20D and higher end DSLR's..I' ll bet thousands more of the $300 - $600 range are sold than $1500 prosusmer DSLR's....SALES numbers are not the ONLY think to look at....

You guys are like a broken record....its too bad.

Why do you ONLY post links to Canon stuff??? Your not biased are you.

Why are my Canon BCI6 inks fading after 3 months in daylight and MY Epson pigment inks are NOT.

Why when I ask someone to tell which print was printed on a Canon 9900 vs Epson R1800 they miss 2 out of three times often telling me gosh there really so close!!!!

Canon BCI printers make great prints, but they have lots of other issues....


EPSON PRINTERS CAN PRINT 44" and LONGER. WHY is this important: Panoramic prints.





Did I say I really like my Canon??? Yes I do, but it has LIMITATIONS...and reading Canon repair manuals DOESNT MAKE THEM GO AWAY.

You worry about who is the CEO and how the stock is doing and I will just keep on printing on my clogging Epson....

Oh...did I tell you that one of Canons, not the i9900, but the I950 put out banded prints....no printer is perfect, but some are better than others...

THE EPSON R1800 and R2400 are the BEST all around printers in there CLASS. Period.
(THIS WILL LAST until the next printer salvo from all the major print co's).

THE HP 8750 and the higer end Designjets are a close second....


For those considering the R1800 and are worrying about the clogging and dark prints, this is NOT an issue.

Maybe I should post the technical link outling the difference between the R800 and the R1800.....like 80% vs 98% of the Adobe RGB range is available to print.

If you PROPERLY calibrate you monitor you will get ACCURATE prints with MANY papers Espon, Illford, ArcheInfinity, Moab, Red River, Illimunta, Projet, CraneMuseo, Legion, and on and on and on...all have good profiles right out of the box.

The sad thing is that the new Canon with Chroma 100 inks has been known about on the web for 6 plus months now...and you think your the only ones in the know???

When this was common place knowledgeable last Jan evryone asked WHEN will this wonderful new technology be available, where were you guys then?????

Many of us emailed Canon, asked the Canon reps in those tall halls of printing expertise...at Best Buy and they said "What????.We have NO idea what your talking about??"....must have not been your store huh??

So Epson raised the bar with the R1800....and HP with the 8750...(and to be fair the same Best Buy and CompUSA experts) had NO idea that a 8750 were coming out either...hmmmm they must have been busy reading those tech manuals ......just in the returns started to come in??

Still NO Canon Choma life 100 ink or printer...

Then HP releases a new HP 90 Designjet and EPSON makes worlds best A3 printer the R2400......

Still NO Canon Chroma life 100 ink or printer....

Then you guys show up touting Canon Chroma life 100 inks coming to a Best Buy near you in the fall....


So do yourself a favor tell CANON we have already BOUGHT archival printers and we are just doing fine thank you...

And if you want even greater sales number (these seem to be a very important critera for you) tell them to FIX their printer driver so it can print longer that 23.99 inches!!!!! and maybe some fine art paper would be nice to compete with Epson Velvet Fine Art??? and also ask Canon for the ability to MAKE COLOR CAST free balck and whites....

Then maybe you will win us over????

All the best!

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