Steve'sDigicams

eric s · May 15, 2004, 4:43 PM

I went out to get this specific shot. Unfortunately, the weather didn't accommodate me and it was very overcast and about 50 degrees. That meant that I had to over use the flash to get even a halfway decent shutter speed. So I think there is too much flash, but you take what you can get.

But I like the composition, what do you all think? This composition is exactly what I was trying for (well, I wanted a few more flowers, but the mix of bird, background and flowers was my goal.)

There are some more shots here:

http://www.marx7.org/~esmith/menotomy/Habitat3/

including Orioles, an ovenbird, a wood thrush & red-bellied woodpecker. I'll be posting a few more from this gallery.

Camera: 10D [email protected] f5.6 1/200 550EX & better beamer (new!)

Photoshop: RAW convert, neat image, sharpen, contrast, brightness.

Eric

Normcar · May 15, 2004, 10:54 PM

Eric, I think the composition is absolutely excellent and the background blur is tops. Respecting exposure, I recall the words of Tim Fitzharris in his "Nature Photography" for the Audubon Society where he denounces flash because it sometimes looks staged. He is a believer in natural light and isn't an advocate of fill flash. I haven't done enough either with or without to have any credibility, but this particular shot seems to be slightly staged and overexposed, unlike "all" of your other shots I have seen.I say this respectfully and in response to your request for opinions. I believe that you are an excellent photographer, professional even, but I don't think that this is your best offering for the above reasons.

When I say "staged" I am referring only to the flash, not the composition, which is perfect.

photosbyvito · May 15, 2004, 11:15 PM

i think it is a incredibly gorgeous shot....i understand wat you mean about the flash....but that better beamer seems to have done a great job here....the only problem i have with this shot (i have to be REALLY picky with a shot as nice as this....lol) is that because of the strong flash..the flowers are overexposed

very nice job eric! keep shooting and posting them!

EDIT....oh yeah.....that shot "woodthrush1" is very nice also

great work

aladyforty · May 16, 2004, 8:57 AM

wow, beautiful shot. A really pretty bird.

eric s · May 16, 2004, 9:46 AM

Normcar

I think it's over "flashed" as well. I would never have gotten the shot sharp if I hadn't use too much flash (it metered at 1/45 f5.6, with the flash I got 1/200.) And it's interesting for me to see what too much flash looks like. I've never really done it this badly before.

I agree, this is not up to my normal standards... but I liked the composition so I wanted to see what others think. I'm going to have to go back on a sunny day and try to get it again.

I would have to disagree with Tim Fitzharris on the use of flash. There are many shots that you could not get without proper use of fill flash (my picture is not an example of "proper" flash.) If he is willing to only shoot the shots that have exactly the light he wants... then I guess you don't need a flash. But for me, a flash is assential. I am more in line with Arthur Morris (one of the best bird photographers out there:

photosbyvito

Turns out that woodthrushes are usually hard to photograph. I didn't know this. That is another example of a shot that isn't normally up to my standards, but in that case it's a rare picture so I put it up. They are fun birds to watch, and a challenge to shoot (always under trees in dark places, scare of people.)

Eric

ccomley · May 16, 2004, 12:54 PM

Yet again, I'm startled by the variety of the planet. That looks *just* like one of our Robins - only its blue, where Robins are brown. If someone had shown me that pic and said it was taken *here*, I'd suspect the blue came from photoshop... :-) Nice pic.

photosbyvito · May 16, 2004, 1:39 PM

hmm....it seems a little short and fat to be a blue robin....

checklg · May 17, 2004, 7:27 AM

Eric, I think you've got a very nicely composed shot there, but I find the colours a little sureal. Maybe it's being a British Birder used to "small brown jobs", or is it an artifact of the flash ? Overall a nice result though, and to say it again beautiful composition.

Regards, Graham.

Please visit www.pbase.com/grahamcheckley

eric s · May 17, 2004, 10:42 AM

I believe its the flash that makes the colors seem a bit off. The lack of shadows in the feathers makes it look a bit flat and plasticy, and the color should be a bit darker (i.e. its a bit washed out.) So you are right, on those fronts its lacking a bit.

But thanks for the comment on the composition. I like it when I get the shot that I wanted and it works.

Eric

Normcar · May 17, 2004, 9:30 PM

Eric, I agree with you on the flash. I haven't had much wildlife experience but from my experience with sports I agree fully that some shots wouldn't be possible, or as dynamic,without it. I brought up that photographer's name as a case in point related to the topic. Even when I read his comments I disagreed with his suggestion that one should avoid the flash. I don't think "anything" should be avoided completely. Thanks for your great shots!

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May 15, 2004, 4:43 PM	#1
eric s Senior Member Join Date: Dec 2002 Posts: 5,803	I went out to get this specific shot. Unfortunately, the weather didn't accommodate me and it was very overcast and about 50 degrees. That meant that I had to over use the flash to get even a halfway decent shutter speed. So I think there is too much flash, but you take what you can get. But I like the composition, what do you all think? This composition is exactly what I was trying for (well, I wanted a few more flowers, but the mix of bird, background and flowers was my goal.) There are some more shots here: http://www.marx7.org/~esmith/menotomy/Habitat3/ including Orioles, an ovenbird, a wood thrush & red-bellied woodpecker. I'll be posting a few more from this gallery. Camera: 10D [email protected] f5.6 1/200 550EX & better beamer (new!) Photoshop: RAW convert, neat image, sharpen, contrast, brightness. Eric

May 15, 2004, 10:54 PM	#2
Normcar Senior Member Join Date: Dec 2003 Posts: 3,748	Eric, I think the composition is absolutely excellent and the background blur is tops. Respecting exposure, I recall the words of Tim Fitzharris in his "Nature Photography" for the Audubon Society where he denounces flash because it sometimes looks staged. He is a believer in natural light and isn't an advocate of fill flash. I haven't done enough either with or without to have any credibility, but this particular shot seems to be slightly staged and overexposed, unlike "all" of your other shots I have seen.I say this respectfully and in response to your request for opinions. I believe that you are an excellent photographer, professional even, but I don't think that this is your best offering for the above reasons. When I say "staged" I am referring only to the flash, not the composition, which is perfect.

May 15, 2004, 11:15 PM	#3
photosbyvito Senior Member Join Date: Dec 2003 Posts: 5,710	i think it is a incredibly gorgeous shot....i understand wat you mean about the flash....but that better beamer seems to have done a great job here....the only problem i have with this shot (i have to be REALLY picky with a shot as nice as this....lol) is that because of the strong flash..the flowers are overexposed very nice job eric! keep shooting and posting them! EDIT....oh yeah.....that shot "woodthrush1" is very nice also great work

May 16, 2004, 8:57 AM	#4
aladyforty Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2004 Posts: 6,964	wow, beautiful shot. A really pretty bird.

May 16, 2004, 9:46 AM	#5
eric s Senior Member Join Date: Dec 2002 Posts: 5,803	Normcar I think it's over "flashed" as well. I would never have gotten the shot sharp if I hadn't use too much flash (it metered at 1/45 f5.6, with the flash I got 1/200.) And it's interesting for me to see what too much flash looks like. I've never really done it this badly before. I agree, this is not up to my normal standards... but I liked the composition so I wanted to see what others think. I'm going to have to go back on a sunny day and try to get it again. I would have to disagree with Tim Fitzharris on the use of flash. There are many shots that you could not get without proper use of fill flash (my picture is not an example of "proper" flash.) If he is willing to only shoot the shots that have exactly the light he wants... then I guess you don't need a flash. But for me, a flash is assential. I am more in line with Arthur Morris (one of the best bird photographers out there: photosbyvito Turns out that woodthrushes are usually hard to photograph. I didn't know this. That is another example of a shot that isn't normally up to my standards, but in that case it's a rare picture so I put it up. They are fun birds to watch, and a challenge to shoot (always under trees in dark places, scare of people.) Eric

May 16, 2004, 12:54 PM	#6
ccomley Member Join Date: Jan 2004 Posts: 89	Yet again, I'm startled by the variety of the planet. That looks just like one of our Robins - only its blue, where Robins are brown. If someone had shown me that pic and said it was taken here, I'd suspect the blue came from photoshop... :-) Nice pic.

May 16, 2004, 1:39 PM	#7
photosbyvito Senior Member Join Date: Dec 2003 Posts: 5,710	hmm....it seems a little short and fat to be a blue robin....

May 17, 2004, 7:27 AM	#8
checklg Senior Member Join Date: Sep 2002 Posts: 659	Eric, I think you've got a very nicely composed shot there, but I find the colours a little sureal. Maybe it's being a British Birder used to "small brown jobs", or is it an artifact of the flash ? Overall a nice result though, and to say it again beautiful composition. Regards, Graham. Please visit www.pbase.com/grahamcheckley

May 17, 2004, 10:42 AM	#9
eric s Senior Member Join Date: Dec 2002 Posts: 5,803	I believe its the flash that makes the colors seem a bit off. The lack of shadows in the feathers makes it look a bit flat and plasticy, and the color should be a bit darker (i.e. its a bit washed out.) So you are right, on those fronts its lacking a bit. But thanks for the comment on the composition. I like it when I get the shot that I wanted and it works. Eric

May 17, 2004, 9:30 PM	#10
Normcar Senior Member Join Date: Dec 2003 Posts: 3,748	Eric, I agree with you on the flash. I haven't had much wildlife experience but from my experience with sports I agree fully that some shots wouldn't be possible, or as dynamic,without it. I brought up that photographer's name as a case in point related to the topic. Even when I read his comments I disagreed with his suggestion that one should avoid the flash. I don't think "anything" should be avoided completely. Thanks for your great shots!