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Normcar Jun 24, 2004 11:24 PM

A trend of critique seems to be surrounding this forum that I personally don't think is healthy. I think that the focus should be more on "content" rather than quality. Perhaps anotherforum might be a possibility where people can comment on quality rather than content might be a possibility? I just don't feel that "wildlife photos" needs to include "quality" wildlife photos. And perhaps some who would love to post some great happenings in the world of wildlife are not posting because they don't think that their photos are technically correct enough. That's something I've been worried about lately.

In the case of this bird, please identify and don't critique, because I know the technical problems, thanks

One more view for the experts out there like hummer and geoff

I like the fact that I can post here, a bird I'm not sure of, without being freaked out about whether or not it's a good photo.

photosbyvito Jun 24, 2004 11:33 PM

oh man..i'm sry..i didn't know you didn't like the critiqueing (how the heck do you spell that?! haha!)

i think there should be a wildlife identification forum, instead of changing this one and adding one for wat this one is supposed to be for anyway...

actually norm....i really would like to know wat is "technically" wrong with this photo! the only thing i can think of is the composition....that the bird is positioned where it is too close to the edge that it is looking is tack sharp with absolutely beautiful details...

if you want me to stop critique-ing...i will...i can't identify them


Normcar Jun 24, 2004 11:45 PM

Vito, it's sharp, and that's about all that's good with it. It's overexposed and the white balance is off. But then again, that's "my" opinion. I personally love your critiques and look forward to them. However, people who are not as equipped to discern whether or not to agree or disagree with comments may take a "comment" to be something more, or a "reality" that needs to be fixed.

I'm suggesting that Vito create a forum because you are "excellent" at critique, and you have personally blessed me. If Steve allows it, I will be the first to post there. Promise, unless Eric or another beats me to the post!

I just don't think that "this" particular forum needs to be so powerfully strong in the area of technique. Well, that's my 2 cents.

photosbyvito Jun 24, 2004 11:52 PM

thanks's only a little overexposed..really...(another upside to RAW ;) )

and about the WB....i'm almost positive you could find a way to fix it in PS....

i could handle modding another forum ;)


Normcar Jun 24, 2004 11:57 PM

Thanks Vito, the best place to fix WB is in the field. And I wonder about RAW. What about all of the fantastic photos published prior to RAW? Some day maybe I'll play with RAW and come back to you saying, "wow, was I a fool." But that day has not yet arrived. Smile

And, Vito, that photo is "really" overexposed. Prior to posting I reduced brightness substantially and increased contrast to effectively create something worth posting. All one needs to really do is look at the "white" areas of the photo to see that it, even as posted, is substantially overexposed.

I hope you don't mind me critiquing your critique.

photosbyvito Jun 25, 2004 12:16 AM

it's all good dude...

i'm not saying it's not possible to get amazing shots without RAW...i'm just could save some pictures with exposure compensation...and WB..

later dude...


geoffs Jun 25, 2004 12:29 AM

Ok, this bird is a white-throated sparrow. Id is what I like to do. Photo critique is not my forte, basically since I don't consider myself an expert in photography.

I understand where you are coming from, Norm. Especially because there are some photos of birds/animals that I've hesitated to post because they do not measure up to the superb work being posted here by others. However, with wildlife photography, even fair photos might serve to illustrate identification, behavioral, or habitat traits of an animal.

Normcar Jun 25, 2004 12:37 AM

Exactly, post away and teach me. Don't worry about the blurr or other, please. I want to learn more about birds, not how to make my photo sharper. I think there are forums for that sort of thing. I hope that you will post those "lost" photos soon. I don't give a hoot about the technical if the photo gives me somethingimportant about the bird.

PS, thanks for the ident!

geoffs Jun 25, 2004 12:58 AM

Here's a little more about the white-throated sparrow...

Detailed page about them is available here.

Their song can be heard here. Once you hear the song you will realize that you've been hearing this all over the place. It is very distinctive and one of the sounds I love to hear when I am in the mountains.

I'll post a few pictures soon. Actually, I've already posted some pictures which I got no comments on - I'll post links to those topics:

Nesting Killdeer with Eggs

American Goldfinch

Normcar Jun 25, 2004 1:09 AM

geoffs, if you are looking to get excellent photos then alot of money is necessary, period. And this is the dilemma in the forum. We have "pro" photographers and amateur photogs, and I personally think that a distinction must be made

People like Vito, who are excellent at bringing about fine detailed problems in photos are definitely "not" what the average photog wants, but it "is" what I want. I love the critique. I'm posting this primarily because I hope that some people who can do something about it will read and heed

I say, Steve, give Vito a forum, and I'll personally commit myself to visiting it regularly

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