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Old Oct 31, 2004, 12:05 AM   #11
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Hi Eric.

Thanks for commenting.

No fill flash but I did apply a bit of fill flash in Photoshop. That and an unsharp mask and I reduced the brighness a bit and upped the contrast just a tad. I was trying to reduce a couple of the blown out areas. Hard to get enough light on the ducks and still try to reduce the blown out areas.

I did not tweak the colors. I think the light was hitting her just right so it caught the irridescent quality of her feathers.
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Old Oct 31, 2004, 2:17 PM   #12
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Did you do isolated application of the PS fill flash?

No, you have a color cast problem. The bill of a female wood duck does not look that color. So sunlight or not, there is something wrong with the color in this picture.

Eric
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Old Oct 31, 2004, 2:41 PM   #13
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Well if you look at a female wood duck swimming in a pond normally they do not have all that blue in the feathers either. Like I said before something about the way the light was hitting her made the colors come out. The females bill is a darker color than the males.

If you say I have color cast problem I will not dispute your point.


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Old Oct 31, 2004, 4:25 PM   #14
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eric s wrote:
Quote:
Geoffs, there are some tricks to getting close to hoodies (and other diving ducks.) A friend likes to call it the dive and sprint. When the go under, you run closer and then freeze (guessing when they come up.) They seem more alarmed by the movement than the closeness (at least the one's I get near.)
Eric, thanks for that tip. What you suggest is perfectly reasonable and I should have known that! And I call myself a birder and student of nature???

To zoomn: The wood duck colors are absolutely brilliant but do look really off. From what you have written in past posts, it sounds like your use of Photoshop is a relatively recent happening. It's quite possible that some of the photoshop effects are a bit overdone here causing some of the color shifts. Is it possible to post your unretouched image? I'd love a chance to try my photoshop skills at it (however feeble those skills may be)...
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Old Oct 31, 2004, 5:08 PM   #15
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I am pretty sure this is the original just as it came from the camera. When I saved them it renumbered the picture. I will include a copy of my edited photo for your convenience. I am excited to see what you come up with in photoshop Geoffs.

Eric s take a look and see if you can determine if there is a color problem.

I would really like to see what you folks can do with the photo I think it has a lot of potential.

I used fill flash and then reduced brightness and increased contrast, unsharp mask, to the best of my recollection that is all I did to it. It is possible I Neat imaged it a tad can't recall for sure.

ps Eric s If you could possible find the time I would be very interested in hearing what you think of the heron close up shots I posted a couple days ago. They are down the page a little bit. I have seen some of your incredible heron shots and would really appreciate some feedback critiquefrom you on those shots if you get a minute and are so inclined.






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Old Nov 1, 2004, 12:29 AM   #16
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I've gotta get to bed, but I didn't want you to think that I missed your post. I'm out tomorrow night but hopefully I'll get a chance to look more closely during lunch instead.

First off, thanks for posting the original and the edited copy over again like that. It made it MUCH easier to compare them.

The blue of the beak on the female is stronger in the edited photos than in the un-edited one. That could be an effect of the reduction (the edited one is a reduction of a crop) but I'm not sure. But the color on the neck of the male is also clearly different and stronger purple. Did you play at all with hue or saturation? To be specific, did you use something called "Fill flash" or did you use the shadow/hilight (which can do something similar to a fill flash)? I don't see "Fill Flash" in PS CS, but its late and my brain is slipping into sleep so I could be missing it.

Why I ask is that I've read some really good PS people post that shadow/hilight can shift the colors and/or give halos. Personally, I've never seen it do that, but I do very subtle amounts of it (if at all) so maybe I've just avoided it unknowingly.

I was just looking again at the two pictures and the color shift is obvious... look at the top of the female's head. Look at the blown hilight (or almost blown, who cares.) It's white with a touch of pink in the "original" but it's pink in the edited copy, heck the head glows pink. Clearly the color is different.

I gotta get to bed, I'm falling asleep. So I haven't proof read this... if I say something clearly dumb then its my sleep head talking.

Eric
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Old Nov 1, 2004, 12:43 AM   #17
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Zoomn, I don't want you to think that I missed your post either! In fact, the email notifications for this thread don't seem to have happened for me (and not the first time here either - thread notification via email is spotty with this bbs software). So, I've only just noticed your followup reply just now at 10:30pm. I'll take a look at this tomorrow and get back to you...
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Old Nov 1, 2004, 1:13 AM   #18
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Zoomn, I decided to do a little investigation tonight instead of waiting until tomorrow.

I think that you definitely overdid it in your PS processing. The birds ended up with some color shifts and the end result was just an unrealistic representation of their real color.

The female is real interesting because she exhibits much more color, even in the original picture, than she really ought to have. She actually looks more like an adult non-breeding male except she's got the facial markings of a female. I suppose the sun angle could account some of her additional coloration.

Also what's somewhat complicating the evaluation of the image is that I can see some areas where there is a lot of CA, specifically PF, that was generated by your camera.

Here's a web page with some fantastic wood duck shots:

http://ecdphoto.addr.com/wd/wd2.html
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Old Nov 1, 2004, 8:11 AM   #19
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I definitely used fill flash in photoshop elements.

The colors mainly came out when I reduced brightness and increased contrast.

The angle of the sun definitely affected the colors on the female. I have never seen one before with all that blue in the feathers but she definitely was showing the blue colors. If you look at the female on that web page you sent me to there in 0 blue in her feathers in that light.

My camera lens combo does create some purple fringing and in this case a red halo on both of their heads in the blown out area.

As I said this photo has a lot of potential so do really appreciateEric and Geoffs your willingness to help out.

I really appreciate the real and honest evaluations I get here. It is the only way I can keep improving. I have a long ways to go but I look back at my first photos and see I have come a long way from there.


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Old Nov 2, 2004, 3:59 PM   #20
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Another beauty zoomn!! It's nice to know that your hard work pays off. Great colour!.....thekman
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