Go Back   Steve's Digicams Forums > Post Your Photos > Wildlife Photos

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old Jan 18, 2005, 10:19 PM   #21
Senior Member
 
Eric CAN's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2003
Posts: 478
Default

Eric it's simpler than that with Add Layer Mask - Hide All (or Reveal All), depending which of the white or black point brush you're using. I use Layer Masking for everything including : curve, photo filters, shaddow/highlight, USM, auto level, auto contrast, even actions, anything ! Your brain is the limit really. So with Layer Masking you can selectively reveal or decrease by playing with the opacity of the brush tool or the opacity of the layer itself. I do this all the time with my shots.

An example, to ease some tiny area of blown highlights, I'll use Add Layer Mask, use the shaddow/highlight tool, will bring the shaddow at 0 level, bump the highlight to 10 up to 15 and then brush by using Add Layer Mask - Hide All away small parts of the image to help to cure blown highlight of white feathers. I did this on each and single shots of the owl I took.

Cheers
Eric CAN is offline   Reply With Quote
Old Jan 18, 2005, 10:51 PM   #22
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2002
Posts: 5,803
Default

But won't what you reveal in the mask cover all the other layers (thereby negating) all the changes they made? Or do you slip the changes that can't be done via adjustment layers above the background but below the adjustment layers?

I assume you're still shooting to the right? When I can use it, it works really well. But I don't always think to push the hilights that hard.

Eric
eric s is offline   Reply With Quote
Old Jan 18, 2005, 11:11 PM   #23
Senior Member
 
geoffs's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Posts: 2,025
Default

You know, Eric CAN, sometimes I think that I've got to fly you out to my location and have you give a clinic on this stuff! :-)
geoffs is offline   Reply With Quote
Old Jan 19, 2005, 12:14 AM   #24
Senior Member
 
Eric CAN's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2003
Posts: 478
Default

eric s wrote:
Quote:
But won't what you reveal in the mask cover all the other layers (thereby negating) all the changes they made? Or do you slip the changes that can't be done via adjustment layers above the background but below the adjustment layers?

I assume you're still shooting to the right? When I can use it, it works really well. But I don't always think to push the hilights that hard.

Eric

Nono Eric, let me explain the principle. You start with a background image, create a layer, then make any adjustment you normally do. Now lets say you would prefer to apply that change only to a specific area of the photo. Here comes layer masking. In PS click on Add Layer Mask - Hide All. What you just adjusted 'dissapear' but using the brush tool, using thewhite pallet, you will reveal only where you brush that layer. If you want to revert, simply switch from white to black, this will negate the effect. Play with the opacity of the brush tool to 'reveal' what you wish, this can be a very powerfull tool.

Now same principle, you create a layer, make an adjustment to it. But lets say most of the image looks better this way, but a certain part don't look good. Use Layer Masking - Reveal All. Using the black pallet with the brush tool will negate the effect while brushing. Again playing with the opacity of the brush you can negate more or less in terms of the ammount. Playing with the size of the brush tool can become quite specific.

Understand the idea ?



Geoff, I think I should write a book, that would pay for my hunger of L glass :-P

Cheers !
Eric CAN is offline   Reply With Quote
Old Jan 19, 2005, 8:30 AM   #25
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2002
Posts: 5,803
Default

I get what you said (I understand masks & layers.) My problem is this.

I load the image, adjust contrast using a curves adjustment layer. Then I think - hey, I'd like to use shadow/higlight. I have two choices (I think, this is where my ignorance might start from): create a new layer or adjust the original bottom layer. You don't want to alter the original layer, so I make a new layer with a mask.

Ok, problem two. Where do I put that new layer? If I put it over the adjustment layer (higher on the layer palet) then I cover the adjustment layers and it's as if that adjustment layer never happened. Even if I use a mask to only reveal the part I want to effect with the shadow/hilight, it will still be that those parts aren't effected by any of the adjustment layers below them. Bad.

The only answer I see is to always put adjustment layers on top and non-adjustment layers on the bottom. That just seems less than optimal... like there should be a better way.

To me, the huge benefit of adjustment layers is the ability to go back over and change it later without having to reedit the entire picture. But with non-adjustment layers, if you want to chance one do you go back and redo all the non-adjustment layers above them (if their masks overlap)? Or accept that they won't have the new changes in them?

BTW, if you wrote up your workflow and covered it with google adwords I'm sure I'd hit it many times learning from your great PS skills. That would help you towards that L lens.

Eric
eric s is offline   Reply With Quote
Old Jan 19, 2005, 10:36 AM   #26
Senior Member
 
Eric CAN's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2003
Posts: 478
Default

Eric I think its in the way you do the whole process that leads you to the misunderstanding (no offence). The method I describe below is straight forward.

You're using an original TIFF from your RAW file. Before making anything to it. Just make a Duplicate Layer (click on layer on top -> duplicate layer). The Dup layer will become Layer 1

-or- In the layer window box, right clicking on Background, you'll have one option : Duplicate Layer, by default it will be named Background Copy.

I believe what you were doing instead is Add a Layer. Which is actually an empty layer. Add Layer is used for other task.

Now this duplicate layer hasn't been modified yet, make any adjustment you wish -anything goes : level, curve, shaddow/highlight, USM, photo filters, Blur, Gaussian Blur, anything really.

Now we have the original layer and the duplicate layer that's been modified. But you want to apply only modification to part of the image.

From the newly duplicate layer, this is where you click on - Layer (on top of PS, in the menu)- Add Layer Mask - you have 2 choice : Hide All, or Reveal All.

If you choose Hide All, you'll have to use the brush tool (use a larger one in the menu, super smooth edge, adjust the size afterward with the slider) using the white for Set Foreground color.By brushing over an area of the image with white, you'll 'reveal' what has been modified on that duplicate layer. Switching to the black brush would revert what you've just done. This is great since you don't need to do "step backward' all the time.

If you choose Reveal All, use the black for Set Foreground color, and the entire layer will have the same properties (read modification) as a normal layer without layer masking. By brushing away part of the image with black, you'll 'hide' what has been modified on that duplicate layer. Switching to the white brush would revert the process and it will be back to the original state of that layer mask (reveal all).

When you're done with that layer that has layer masking, you can merge visible, so the 'new' image will be at a single level (background), but has been changed. I suggest before doing any mods to simply duplicate the image (Image -> Duplicate), and save it under a different name. So you always have a non-mod image somewhere on your HD. Personally I don't do this since the original is really a RAW which is only 6MB instead of 30 something when its a TIFF at 16 bit.

Then you could create another Duplicate Layer, and carry on your work using a different adjustment. Then Layer Mask and so on.

I think that sums it up pretty much Eric.

Cheers


Eric CAN is offline   Reply With Quote
Old Jan 19, 2005, 12:02 PM   #27
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2002
Posts: 5,803
Default

Thanks for the well written description of adjustment layers and the use of masks. But I actually do understand all of what you said (I thank Vito for finally getting it to click in my head.) Using layer masks and either regular or adjustment layers is really much better than how I used to do it (with selections and no layers.) Vastly better.

My problem is more with where you put adjustment layers vs. regular layers with masks (created via duplicating) in the list of layers. Since the location of the layer makes a huge difference. Put a duplicate layer on top of an adjustment layer and the places where the mask reveals will block the adjustment layer.

When I get home tonight I'll try to spell out my situation with steps and comments about what buttons I'm pushing. I'm fairly convinced the problem still lies with me (and not PS) but I maybe be describing my problem wrong or working off a (wrong) assumption that I don't realize I have.

Eric
eric s is offline   Reply With Quote
Old Jan 19, 2005, 2:40 PM   #28
Senior Member
 
Eric CAN's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2003
Posts: 478
Default

Ok Eric, that's fine by me. It's actually much simpler than you think. You don't create layer over layers and so on. Layer Masking is applied to that very 1st duplicated layer, so the effect is then decided by you by brushing away on part of the image.

In any case, let me know ur step by step.

Please compare to what I've written in the previous reply.

Cheers
Eric CAN is offline   Reply With Quote
Old Jan 19, 2005, 4:39 PM   #29
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2002
Posts: 5,803
Default

No, that I get. What is bugging me has to do with multiple non-adjustment layers....

Say I have a layer (made with a mask) for shadow/hilight.
Now I create an adjustment layer for curves. So my layer pallet look like:
1) adjustment layer for curves
2) shadow/hilight (normal layer)
3) origional picture (regular layer - untouched.)

Now I decide I want to use a cute contrast adjustment trick via USM. adjustment layers don't support USM, so I need to do what I did with the shadow/hilight layer. But where do I put it? I assume as 1.5 (below all adjustment layers, above all normal layers with masks.)

Since there can be an issue of the masks overlaping between my new 1.5 layer and 2, I can't dupe the layer 3. To handle the overlap, I assume I duplicate layer 2 to start 1.5. The problem I see is that if I want to change layer 2 in the future (I want to redo the shodow/hilight) those changes won't be reflected in the areas of 1.5 that are exposed in the mask (because it was created off of the old version of 2.) Clearly the places that are masked out will reflect the new #2 layer and that will be fine.

Now that I write all this out, I'm starting to think this isn't really a big issue. Does it really matter that the parts of picure is a little off? It was certainly easier than redoing the entire picture because layers weren't used.

Did that make sense? I'm going to a raptor presentation tonight (using some of my pictures, actually) so that might delay my experimentation with PS til later in the evening.

Thanks for hijacking this and putting up with PS ramblings. I know a lot more than I did 6 months ago, but I don't feel like I know enough to get the full potental out of some of my pictures.

Eric
eric s is offline   Reply With Quote
Old Jan 19, 2005, 6:58 PM   #30
Senior Member
 
Eric CAN's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2003
Posts: 478
Default

Make it 1 level at a time Eric, that's what I do. Also I never ever use adjustment layers. What I do is duplicate layers, pure and simple. Then I do make any adjustment to that layer, making sure that layer is active (blue box). This way any possible adjustment is possible, including anything you know of. Make any adjustment to any level you wish, play with opacity of that layer if needed to achieve the desirable effect ... THEN Add Layer Mask - Hide All and so on as I described above.

Now when your done with that single layer, adjusted to your taste, layer masked so you specifically/locally made changes to part of the image -> Merge visible. At this point the original as been transformed. There's another way of doing this too.

Eric, its not super important that some parts might be off, it really depends what's your threshold of what is acceptable or not.

I'll do something, did that before on this forum. I'll create a visual workflow to illustrate how easy it can be done. This including screenshots.

Cheers
Eric CAN is offline   Reply With Quote
 
Reply


Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 12:15 PM.